Help With An Online List Of Metal

And also your argument that Metalcore/Nu Metal is as important than NWOBHM, Doom Metal and Black Metal because a bunch of kids who are new to Metal are into it is the equivalent of saying that Blink 182 are just as important to Punk Rock as the Sex Pistols, and even though I'm not much of an expert on Punk Rock, I know for a fact that's absolute bullshit.

Kingcrimsonprog wrote: IMPF2112 wrote: Kingcrimsonprog wrote: IMPF2112 wrote: Please don't be offended when I say this, but [spoiler]That list is horrible[/spoiler] Cool, this is useful. What would you change ? What would you add, subtract, re-arrange ? Why do you say that ? Dislike the albums, Disagree with the albums historical significance, disagree that the albums represent their band and genre well, what ? 1. ELP, Genesis, Yes, Nick Drake (among others) have absolutely nothing to do with Metal. There not even close to being Hard Rock. I like all those artists, but I'm confused as to why they are on there. 2. Follow the Reaper should be on there instead of Hate Crew Deathroll. 3. Moonsorrow, Arkona and Primordial should be on there for Folk Metal. 4. There's waaay too many Grunge/Alt/Nu Metal/Groove Metal/Metalcore on there. I guess I could understand putting some on, but there's just way too many on there, especially since those genres are among the least prominent in the Metal scene. 5. Terria and Ocean Machine should be on there with Ziltoid. 6. There should be a section on Avant-Garde Metal. Some suggestions are Arcuturus' The Sham Mirrors, maudlin of the Well's Bath, Gorguts' Obscura, Devin Townsend's Deconstruction, Imaginary Sonicscape by Sigh, Into the Pandemonium by Celtic Frost, and Mr. Bungle's s/t. 8. The fact that there's only one Bathory album is depressing. Hammerheart, Blood Fire Death and the s/t most definitley deserve to be on there along with Under the Sign... 9. The Black Metal section is so horribly incomplete I don't even know where to start. Aside from that, the list isn't too bad. Sorry if you think I'm being an asshole or something like that.  This is not some huge angry rant. Tone is difficult to discern on the internet so it may look like I'm getting heated because you cant hear the tone of my voice and see my body language or facial expressions, but this is a calm and neural-emotioned explanation: 1. They're in there because of their huge influence on Prog Metal, because of their huge and constantly documented influence on Priest and Maiden and because they always turn up on these lists, including Metal Hammer's recent 300 Metal Albums issue. 4. I would argue that they aren't as irrelevant as you think, its just that those aren't the parts of metal that you personally focus on. A) they're hugely important for luring in new metal fans, started tonnes of metal and hard rock musician's careers, influenced tonnes and tonnes of new musicians to start and soon the influence of people who grew up on the likes disturbed and linkin park will start to break through. B) Metalcore has been one of the most important and populous genres for new fans in the past 15 years. C) All the grunge, alternative & posthardcore stuff is important for its influence on metalcore,nu metal, djent, newer avant garde, the wave and those new british hardcore metal bands. D) For people aged 12-18, this section is much more relevant than NWOBHM, Doom,Black or some of the 'cooler' subgenres. And since the list is about what you need to have heard to understand the holistic entirety of metal those are the very things I wanted to cover.  3,6,9. I don't know about those genres at all, so all/most of my info has been based on suggestions from forums like this one. You may well be right there.  I'll definitely look into those and am grateful for the suggestions. 2,5,8.  That ones just down to opinion. Its from the hundred's of lists, podcasts, articles, documentaries and forum posts I've ever experienced that the ones in there got chosen, I haven't seen the same evidence for the ones you've chosen a for the once that I've chosen, or else I would have chosen them because again my opinion of how good something is or isn't is absent from this list, and the entire point of the list is what you'd need to have heard to definitively understand all metal, not which albums are good. The only reason that quiet a lot of the albums are good, is only because the good ones were often influential or genre-definitive.

Time Signature wrote: Are you going to write a couple of words per album on the list, by the way? It would be interesting to read why you think that each album is important to the world of metal.

I dunno, it would get very repetitive. Every article would either be essentially 'this is an example of what thrash metal sounds like' or else 'this influenced Emperor's guitar style'

All the weird ones would just be 'because Nu Metal/Djent/The-more-emoish-selection-of-Metalcore bands liked it'

Some more suggestions from me:

Maximum the Hormone: ぶっ生き返す
Because it is an example of how alternative/nu metal can actually be interesting and innovative.

Clawfinger: Deaf Dumb Blind
Perhaps the most important rap metal album in European metal history ever.

Artillery: By Inheritance
I think this is an underappreciated technical thrash metal album, featuring some of the sickest vocals in the history of the genre.

Sepultura: Arise
Legendary thrash metal album and, to many, the last good Sepultura album.

Nuclear Assault: Handle With Care
Unique eco-thrash album with crossover elements - nothing sounds like that album, I think.

Invocator: Dying to Live
Deserves mention for being one of the most innovative and technical (dare I say progressive) groove thrash albums of its time.

Psychotic Waltz: Into the Everflow and A Social Grace
I remember people ranting on about these releases back in the day and, while they've perhaps faded (eh?) from the spotlight these days, they were definitely important milestones in the world of progressive metal.

Fates Warning: Awaken the Guardian
This is generally the preferred album among the John Arch-worshipping faction of FW fans, and it is generally an important album in progressive metal.

Anvil: Metal on Metal
Their most iconic release, I think, and quite influential - not just in traditional heavy metal, but also in other genres.

Running Wild: Under Jolly Roger and Port Royal
Considered some of the most important "pirate metal" albums.

Funeral: Tristesse
Important doom metal album and, according to many, the seminal funeral doom album.

Paradise Lost: Lost Paradise
My Dying Bride: As the Flower Withers
Anathema: Serenades
All for being seminal death-doom albums.

Are you going to write a couple of words per album on the list, by the way? It would be interesting to read why you think that each album is important to the world of metal.

IMPF2112 wrote: Kingcrimsonprog wrote: IMPF2112 wrote: Please don't be offended when I say this, but [spoiler]That list is horrible[/spoiler] Cool, this is useful. What would you change ? What would you add, subtract, re-arrange ? Why do you say that ? Dislike the albums, Disagree with the albums historical significance, disagree that the albums represent their band and genre well, what ? 1. ELP, Genesis, Yes, Nick Drake (among others) have absolutely nothing to do with Metal. There not even close to being Hard Rock. I like all those artists, but I'm confused as to why they are on there. 2. Follow the Reaper should be on there instead of Hate Crew Deathroll. 3. Moonsorrow, Arkona and Primordial should be on there for Folk Metal. 4. There's waaay too many Grunge/Alt/Nu Metal/Groove Metal/Metalcore on there. I guess I could understand putting some on, but there's just way too many on there, especially since those genres are among the least prominent in the Metal scene. 5. Terria and Ocean Machine should be on there with Ziltoid. 6. There should be a section on Avant-Garde Metal. Some suggestions are Arcuturus' The Sham Mirrors, maudlin of the Well's Bath, Gorguts' Obscura, Devin Townsend's Deconstruction, Imaginary Sonicscape by Sigh, Into the Pandemonium by Celtic Frost, and Mr. Bungle's s/t. 8. The fact that there's only one Bathory album is depressing. Hammerheart, Blood Fire Death and the s/t most definitley deserve to be on there along with Under the Sign... 9. The Black Metal section is so horribly incomplete I don't even know where to start. Aside from that, the list isn't too bad. Sorry if you think I'm being an asshole or something like that.

This is not some huge angry rant. Tone is difficult to discern on the internet so it may look like I'm getting heated because you cant hear the tone of my voice and see my body language or facial expressions, but this is a calm and neural-emotioned explanation:


1. They're in there because of their huge influence on Prog Metal, because of their huge and constantly documented influence on Priest and Maiden and because they always turn up on these lists, including Metal Hammer's recent 300 Metal Albums issue.

4. I would argue that they aren't as irrelevant as you think, its just that those aren't the parts of metal that you personally focus on.
A) they're hugely important for luring in new metal fans, started tonnes of metal and hard rock musician's careers, influenced tonnes and tonnes of new musicians to start and soon the influence of people who grew up on the likes disturbed and linkin park will start to break through.
B) Metalcore has been one of the most important and populous genres for new fans in the past 15 years.
C) All the grunge, alternative & posthardcore stuff is important for its influence on metalcore,nu metal, djent, newer avant garde, the wave and those new british hardcore metal bands.
D) For people aged 12-18, this section is much more relevant than NWOBHM, Doom,Black or some of the 'cooler' subgenres. And since the list is about what you need to have heard to understand the holistic entirety of metal those are the very things I wanted to cover. 

3,6,9. I don't know about those genres at all, so all/most of my info has been based on suggestions from forums like this one. You may well be right there.  I'll definitely look into those and am grateful for the suggestions.

2,5,8.  That ones just down to opinion. Its from the hundred's of lists, podcasts, articles, documentaries and forum posts I've ever experienced that the ones in there got chosen, I haven't seen the same evidence for the ones you've chosen a for the once that I've chosen, or else I would have chosen them because again my opinion of how good something is or isn't is absent from this list, and the entire point of the list is what you'd need to have heard to definitively understand all metal, not which albums are good.
The only reason that quiet a lot of the albums are good, is only because the good ones were often influential or genre-definitive.

IMPF2112 wrote: Please don't be offended when I say this, but [spoiler]That list is horrible[/spoiler]

Cool, this is useful. What would you change ?
What would you add, subtract, re-arrange ?

Why do you say that ? Dislike the albums, Disagree with the albums historical significance, disagree that the albums represent their band and genre well, what ?

Aren't all lists horrible to people who don't agree with them?

Diogenes wrote: Kingcrimsonprog wrote: OK. Thus far I have got it to 350. I added a lot of your suggestions for technical death, folk, symphonic & doom metal albums, as well as some pre-metl stuff too. I also added in a few emo albums I thought likely were necessary too. ..and I shuffled the order around too. Starts with pre-metal, ends with Djent... which kind of makes sense. the middle is still a bit fuzzy... maybe all the punk stuff should go after pre-metal but before metal. Anyway, here's what I've got so far (+many thanks) http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/list-of-albums-that-you-need-to-have-heard-to-have-a-full-and-comprehensive-understanding-of-metal-music/ Make sure you at least listen to our suggestions first.  This is your list, after all.

Yeah, but its not a list of things I think are good, its a list of things that are demonstrably influential to other artists or definitive of scenes.

One day I'll know everything in it, but at the minute the list is aspirational / for information purposes.

Kingcrimsonprog wrote: Colt wrote: I applaud the effort, this is a tough ask. Personally, a couple of major errors and omissions. The Metal genre is far too diverse to allow the luxury of multiple entries for most artists. Although I can see the need for some.  Only  6 NWoBHM bands? The bands chosen dont represent the diversity of the time sufficiently.  Please excuse me if these bands are included and I have missed them but these are a must include IMO. (off the top of my head) Nazareth, UFO, Blue Cheer, Spooky Tooth, Budgie, Aerosmith,The Kinks, Pentagram, Slade, The Sweet, Steppenwolf. Obviously, open to debate. Oh, some nice ideas there. Can't believe I forgot Blue Cheer! I'll definitely add some of those ! I've got 1 Aerosmith album in there, Toys In The Attic, it comes up in lists a lot. Any others 'essential' ?

Perhaps of the more obscure kind, but Brats' 1980 is quite something, and I'd put it on the list. Also Cynic's Focus and Atheist's Unquestionable Presence are, in my opinion, some of the best prog extreme metal albums out there, so I'd put them on the list, too. I'd probably also put Candlemass' first album on the list as it is seminal in epic doom metal.