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Metal Up Your Ass and all that Jazz Room V2

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 2:14pm
Thanks, Jonas! Smile I'll be shooting another video shortly and posting it here when it uploads.

A shame that you missed out on that record store, but it definitely could've been problematic if you're concerned about luggage and costs. It's tough to walk out of that place without a boatload of stuff! LOL Hope you enjoyed LA, though! It's a really unique and fun city IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilytank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

 
Btw I went to LA today, but didnt have time to seek out the record store you recommended and it was my last shot...as Im attending a seminar from Monday to Friday and fly back home early Saturday morningCry. Did get to see the Santa Monica Pier, Rodeo Drive and well...just drove around Beverly Hills to see a couple of the big ass mansions there. Actually not the most interesting things in the world, but I had to see the giraffe and tell back home I lived to see themLOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 4:10pm


VINYL REVIEW! Think this one came out a lot better than my first one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stooge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by J-Man J-Man wrote:



VINYL REVIEW! Think this one came out a lot better than my first one.

What type of camera do you use to film these?  Stand-alone?  Web-cam?  Monitor-cam?  I was wondering if there are some decent USB computer cams out there that can do a fair job of recording videos like yours.  I don't know what I'd use one for, but it would be nice to play around with. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 11:23pm
Great review Jeff...Id be interested to see you handle a negative review Big smile. Those are always the hardest to do, if you still want to keep a respecful tone...which I know is something you prioritize...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilytank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 6:40am
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

negative review ...keep a respecful tone...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 9:06am
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilytank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 11:43am
Keep in mind too that I don't mind lighter tone and lack of hyperbole, I do though have a problem with:
A) people describing the album in a neutral tone and then saying that they simply don't like it at the end.
B) flooding their review with so many qualifying phrases that their credibility becomes questionable.


Edited by Wilytank - 30 Jan 2013 at 11:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bartosso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 2:47pm
As long as you support your criticism - no matter how harsh - with solid arguments, it is respectful in my book. I can't see why I'm supposed to restrain myself if the music is bad, even though the impression is completely subjective. Besides, harsh and/or humorous reviews are much more fun to read Big smile  That being said, I've never used any crude or even questionable vocabulary, just for the sake of elegance. 

And nice reviews Jeff. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 5:32pm
Thanks for the feedback, everybody! Thumbs Up

@Dan - I just use the camera on my phone (Droid RAZR). Not great, but it gets the job done!

@Jonas - I do plan on doing some negative reviews at some point, but right now I want to stick to albums I enjoy, just to establish what sort of music I enjoy right off the bat. And, yes, you're right about the respectful tone - to clarify my position, this means acknowledging quality musicianship/production/songwriting even if it doesn't suit my interests, and never insulting the musicians on a personal level (unless they subscribe to a hateful ideology of some sort). Reviews are mostly subjective, of course, but pointing out objective quality is a priority in my reviews. Smile

...and yesterday I reviewed an album that you might be familiar with. Wink



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilytank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by J-Man J-Man wrote:

musicianship/production/songwriting

All that stuff can be argued subjectively as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 9:24pm
Of course it can be argued subjectively -- almost anything can -- but could we agree that Rush (for example) are objectively professional and highly skilled musicians? I really wish you would get over this 'everything is subjective' stuff and acknowledge that there is a way to measure quality independent of personal preference. Ermm

I don't particularly care for most classical music, for instance, but I wouldn't argue that the standards of musicianship and composition of Beethoven's fifth aren't good simply because I don't like it. It's very possible to review something entirely subjectively while still mentioning that the quality of musicianship and production are high and that fans of the genre might enjoy it more than I do.

I really don't get what you're failing to understand there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilytank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 10:48pm
Originally posted by J-Man J-Man wrote:

Of course it can be argued subjectively -- almost anything can -- but could we agree that Rush (for example) are objectively professional and highly skilled musicians? I really wish you would get over this 'everything is subjective' stuff and acknowledge that there is a way to measure quality independent of personal preference. Ermm

I don't particularly care for most classical music, for instance, but I wouldn't argue that the standards of musicianship and composition of Beethoven's fifth aren't good simply because I don't like it. It's very possible to review something entirely subjectively while still mentioning that the quality of musicianship and production are high and that fans of the genre might enjoy it more than I do.

I really don't get what you're failing to understand there.

Because what you don't understand is that there is zero objectivity in any well developed opinion.  I already said that I hate seeing reviews that state a bunch of elements of the music in a neutral tone with the reviewer saying that they simply don't like it at the end.  That's poor review material because you can get the same substance by reading Wikipedia's description for the band/album and then looking at the average scores on RateYourMusic.  

Nothing is sacred, and I'll be damned if I'm supposed to live in a society where everyone is supposed to passively accept that any chosen band or musician is undeniably "professional and highly skilled".  When someone does come along and say otherwise, they're automatically wrong then.

Who's to say objectively what those terms mean and who they're applied to anyway?  "Quality and talented musician" to one could come out as pompous, overblown, obnoxious, too complicated for its own good, wasted talent, or even just boring to another.  "Good production" to one could be overproduced, too clean, or too loud to another.  This shit ain't carved in stone.

This also build dangerous ground for the development of a master race mentality among music.  Like prog metal is supposed to be undeniably impressive and skillful with no one allowed to say otherwise, while genres harder to get into such as black metal could go either way but are ultimately inferior to the masters.

Are certain acts influential?  Of course, but that's for the bands that came around since the influential act made their music to show.  If one were to write a review for Moving Pictures the year it came out, there obviously wouldn't be any mention of influence.

I don't understand what you're failing to get here.  What you seem to support is something like this:

Supposedly correct person: No one can deny that Rush are true professionals with lots of skills.
Supposedly incorrect person: Really?  I find them rather bland and unimpressive.  A lot of their material puts bores me to tears.
Supposedly correct person: No, you are wrong.

What my response to the supposedly incorrect person would be: Whatever, dude.  Thanks for trying.

So, I don't waste my time mentioning trite things like if other people would possibly like an album I don't.  I only mention production in a way that weaves in how it effects the music.  Rain Upon the Impure by The Ruins of Beverast might not have an "undeniably (I'm getting real tired of that term now) good production" like say Dream Theater does on any album of theirs, but Alexander von Meilenwald can use the production on his own album as another tool to make that album sound sinister, evil, atmospheric, vast, and frightening to make for an extremely epic near perfect experience which is a lot more positive adjectives than I can give to anything Dream Theater did.  There's no point giving Rebecca Black's crunkcore My Little Pony song that's totally repugnant in all other ways a few extra points just because its production doesn't make it sound like it was recorded inside the rectum of a whale.

So tired right now of all this...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolves With Hats Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2013 at 1:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2013 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by Wilytank Wilytank wrote:

Originally posted by J-Man J-Man wrote:

Of course it can be argued subjectively -- almost anything can -- but could we agree that Rush (for example) are objectively professional and highly skilled musicians? I really wish you would get over this 'everything is subjective' stuff and acknowledge that there is a way to measure quality independent of personal preference. Ermm

I don't particularly care for most classical music, for instance, but I wouldn't argue that the standards of musicianship and composition of Beethoven's fifth aren't good simply because I don't like it. It's very possible to review something entirely subjectively while still mentioning that the quality of musicianship and production are high and that fans of the genre might enjoy it more than I do.

I really don't get what you're failing to understand there.

Because what you don't understand is that there is zero objectivity in any well developed opinion.  I already said that I hate seeing reviews that state a bunch of elements of the music in a neutral tone with the reviewer saying that they simply don't like it at the end.  That's poor review material because you can get the same substance by reading Wikipedia's description for the band/album and then looking at the average scores on RateYourMusic.  

Nothing is sacred, and I'll be damned if I'm supposed to live in a society where everyone is supposed to passively accept that any chosen band or musician is undeniably "professional and highly skilled".  When someone does come along and say otherwise, they're automatically wrong then.

Who's to say objectively what those terms mean and who they're applied to anyway?  "Quality and talented musician" to one could come out as pompous, overblown, obnoxious, too complicated for its own good, wasted talent, or even just boring to another.  "Good production" to one could be overproduced, too clean, or too loud to another.  This shit ain't carved in stone.

This also build dangerous ground for the development of a master race mentality among music.  Like prog metal is supposed to be undeniably impressive and skillful with no one allowed to say otherwise, while genres harder to get into such as black metal could go either way but are ultimately inferior to the masters.

Are certain acts influential?  Of course, but that's for the bands that came around since the influential act made their music to show.  If one were to write a review for Moving Pictures the year it came out, there obviously wouldn't be any mention of influence.

I don't understand what you're failing to get here.  What you seem to support is something like this:

Supposedly correct person: No one can deny that Rush are true professionals with lots of skills.
Supposedly incorrect person: Really?  I find them rather bland and unimpressive.  A lot of their material puts bores me to tears.
Supposedly correct person: No, you are wrong.

What my response to the supposedly incorrect person would be: Whatever, dude.  Thanks for trying.

So, I don't waste my time mentioning trite things like if other people would possibly like an album I don't.  I only mention production in a way that weaves in how it effects the music.  Rain Upon the Impure by The Ruins of Beverast might not have an "undeniably (I'm getting real tired of that term now) good production" like say Dream Theater does on any album of theirs, but Alexander von Meilenwald can use the production on his own album as another tool to make that album sound sinister, evil, atmospheric, vast, and frightening to make for an extremely epic near perfect experience which is a lot more positive adjectives than I can give to anything Dream Theater did.  There's no point giving Rebecca Black's crunkcore My Little Pony song that's totally repugnant in all other ways a few extra points just because its production doesn't make it sound like it was recorded inside the rectum of a whale.

So tired right now of all this...


After this comment, I don't plan on continuing this conversation. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter - I will continue reviewing my way and you can review your way. That, and I am tired of you bringing this up at every opportunity you are given. My issue is that you keep straw-manning my position in order to make a point and insisting that "zero objectivity is involved in a well formed opinion". I'm not okay with either of those.

Without dissecting your entire post, I want to address a few of the points you made (this one particularly):

"Supposedly correct person: No one can deny that Rush are true professionals with lots of skills.
Supposedly incorrect person: Really?  I find them rather bland and unimpressive.  A lot of their material puts bores me to tears.
Supposedly correct person: No, you are wrong."

That is NOT the position I am advocating. The 'incorrect person' is not wrong about anything for stating their interpretation of Rush's material. You're either confusing subjectivity with objectivity or dishonestly misrepresenting my position to make a point.

I also don't buy into the 'master race' stuff that you mentioned, either. Detecting professionalism has nothing to do with playing complex and technical material. It has to do with sounding like a professional example of the genre you represent - acts like Tangerine Dream or Burzum obviously are not on the same technical playing field as Dream Theater, but the intentions behind the music are different. One can still objectively look at whether or not the standard of musicianship or production suits the atmosphere of the music without resulting in a 'master race'. This is where phrases like "the production is raw and the musicianship is sloppy, but it works to benefit the album's atmosphere" come in handy. Objectivity does not work for or against any genre.

I find it important to mention things like that in my reviews, and if you don't, that's fine - continue writing them the way you want. It just drives me up a wall how convinced you are that objectivity and diplomacy have no place in journalism whatsoever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2013 at 7:01pm
woah guys

isnt this the shred room
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2013 at 7:25pm
Sorry, Colin. Tongue Back to the thread's normal activity! Back to topic
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2013 at 7:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2013 at 7:41pm
...I do also want to mention that no hard feelings are intended with Liam. As long as its kept civil, I don't hold grudges over disagreements. Thumbs Up If I came across as a dick at all (which I may have), it's probably because I'm all caught up in midterms at the moment, and am in a bit of a shit mood as a result. Cheers! Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2013 at 7:52pm
Going out for steak and beer in a moment, so Im in a truly great moodHeadbanger
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