Deathspell Omega: "Paracletus"

Hell Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you listened to every release by the band? They have developed their sound quite a bit over the years.

And I thought that Fas had professional and polished (not in bad way) sound, ha! Tastes really differ.

Very eager to hear this new album. Will be interesting to hear to which direction they are going now, they are developing on each release.

CCVP wrote: Vehemency wrote: And I thought that Fas had professional and polished (not in bad way) sound, ha! Tastes really differ. Very eager to hear this new album. Will be interesting to hear to which direction they are going now, they are developing on each release. Really? I mean, really really? Wow man, just wow.

Not sure do you refer to the sound things with that comment, but anyways: in comparison to the usual music that I listen to (example track of old DsO), then yes, Fas has very professional sound. I also revere tapes and vinyls, buying them both as often as CDs.

CCVP wrote: EDIT: I see you really like Burzum huh? Another band I just can't listen to. But I know why. Varg actually made an effor to make eferything sound bad: played all albums with the cheapest guitars and strings he could find, used some old out of tune drums and mixed and produced the albums in just one day with the guy that worked at the studios he recorded his albums. Oh, and he recorded everything in one day. One day for each album. Withh Belus he had a bit more of concern about the final product and spent a week recording the thing, as far as I know. IMO this is just plain lazyness. The musc sounds horrible, muffled and muddy, you can't listen to the instruments and vocals propperly, just a mass of noise. And look, I really like death metal and grindcore, to some extend, and the bands, despite being loud and everything, do try to sound as good as possible (being Chuck Schuldiner one great example of that).

This is an interestic topic, but in the end it all comes down to just people having different opinions.

In my opinion, true art doesn't ask for polished sounds and studios that are rented for 2 months to work on little details 24/7. Surely it's possible to create fantastic albums like that too (after all I love many very detailed prog records), but I can get musical satisfaction from much simplier things. THE thing with bands like Burzum is that they sound so honest and simple, the natural atmosphere is phenomenal on "Hvis Lyset Tar Oss" and "Filosofem". Quite often they aren't real "musicians". They just have a vision, they record it on the go, and release it with all the little flaws in there, and I don't really care. At best, it only enhances the atmosphere.

I think Burzum albums are rather "clear" yet underground surely. Filosofem is a noisy record, but even there I can hear the instruments and vocals very well. A mass of noise is okay to me, I do listen to the noise genre too!

Of course, bad production CAN be just pure lazyness. But I don't really mind if the creator has been lazy or what if I enjoy the music. After all that's the most important thing.

This post might be a little incoherent, sorry about that, but I can discuss this even more. :-)

Vehemency wrote: CCVP wrote: EDIT: I see you really like Burzum huh? Another band I just can't listen to. But I know why. Varg actually made an effor to make eferything sound bad: played all albums with the cheapest guitars and strings he could find, used some old out of tune drums and mixed and produced the albums in just one day with the guy that worked at the studios he recorded his albums. Oh, and he recorded everything in one day. One day for each album. Withh Belus he had a bit more of concern about the final product and spent a week recording the thing, as far as I know. IMO this is just plain lazyness. The musc sounds horrible, muffled and muddy, you can't listen to the instruments and vocals propperly, just a mass of noise. And look, I really like death metal and grindcore, to some extend, and the bands, despite being loud and everything, do try to sound as good as possible (being Chuck Schuldiner one great example of that). This is an interestic topic, but in the end it all comes down to just people having different opinions. In my opinion, true art doesn't ask for polished sounds and studios that are rented for 2 months to work on little details 24/7. Surely it's possible to create fantastic albums like that too (after all I love many very detailed prog records), but I can get musical satisfaction from much simplier things. THE thing with bands like Burzum is that they sound so honest and simple, the natural atmosphere is phenomenal on "Hvis Lyset Tar Oss" and "Filosofem". Quite often they aren't real "musicians". They just have a vision, they record it on the go, and release it with all the little flaws in there, and I don't really care. At best, it only enhances the atmosphere. I think Burzum albums are rather "clear" yet underground surely. Filosofem is a noisy record, but even there I can hear the instruments and vocals very well. A mass of noise is okay to me, I do listen to the noise genre too! Of course, bad production CAN be just pure lazyness. But I don't really mind if the creator has been lazy or what if I enjoy the music. After all that's the most important thing. This post might be a little incoherent, sorry about that, but I can discuss this even more. :-)

I know exactly what you mean. However, I do think that, on this day and age, it does not hurt to give some attention to production. The process isn't as expensive as it was 20 years ago and people can safely do home recordings with great quality with relatively little investment. If one do uses a recording studio, why not make the full thing?

There is an artists from my hometown which does exactly that. He has his own home "studio" (it's just a place for him to play his instruments) and record stuff over proffesional studios. And I am pretty sure things in Brasil are way more expensive than in Finno-Scania. Varg said that the amount of money he spent recording the albums was under a thousand dollars and that the amount of money he killed Euronymous for was aproximately the minimum wage per month at Noway at the time. These things aren't so expensive at all (if you have a job, of course).

My point is, the music can sound natural without being muddy or artificially clear. People that aren't professional musicians can record things by impulse without muffling their sound. The final product can be as good as any big record company release without spending thousands upon thousands of dollars.

I do know that it is more a question of personal taste, but IMO the main reason why BM bands don't make it big, like Swede DM bands for example, is that they make such an effort to "sound" underground or underproduced. There is also the subject they bring on their songs, but come on, Freddie Goes to Hollywood had explicid homosexual themes on their songs and most people didn't give a damn for it at the time. They just cared about the music. Same with Lady Gaga.

And I love discussing this.

CCVP wrote: My point is, the music can sound natural without being muddy or artificially clear.

I verily agree, I hope I didn't make the impression that only bad sounding albums can have natural atmosphere, heh.

IMO one of the things in black metal is that there is no absolute need to sound even partially professional. This is indeed why black metal will never reach big fame, and I see no reason for it to reach it. I also see absolutely no reason why e.g. Burzum albums should be more professionally produced (/ recorded) when it's already golden to my perverted ears, ears that are accustomed to unprofessional sound and only love if the music is filthy. It's totally up to the listener, indeed.

I don't think that VERY many black metal acts consciously record as bad as possible (albums like Filosofem are different, Varg indeed has said he basically used the worst instruments he could find). I know black metal musicians (okay, that might be a bad term) who just enjoy to rely on their 20-year-old tape recorders and don't want to expand the productional values any further - because there's no need, they are where they want to be, and they have their little listener base who think like-wise.

I'm a bit slow to respond, eating and text messaging the same time. I'm also bad at arguing and forming my thoughts into words, really.

Edit: And just to add this: I do understand your view too CCVP, at least I think I do, so I'm not trying to turn you into a  BM lover or anything.


Edited by Vehemency - 06 Sep 2010 at 2:50pm

Vehemency wrote: CCVP wrote: My point is, the music can sound natural without being muddy or artificially clear. I verily agree, I hope I didn't make the impression that only bad sounding albums can have natural atmosphere, heh. IMO one of the things in black metal is that there is no absolute need to sound even partially professional. This is indeed why black metal will never reach big fame, and I see no reason for it to reach it. I also see absolutely no reason why e.g. Burzum albums should be more professionally produced (/ recorded) when it's already golden to my perverted ears, ears that are accustomed to unprofessional sound and only love if the music is filthy. It's totally up to the listener, indeed. I don't think that VERY many black metal acts consciously record as bad as possible (albums like Filosofem are different, Varg indeed has said he basically used the worst instruments he could find). I know black metal musicians (okay, that might be a bad term) who just enjoy to rely on their 20-year-old tape recorders and don't want to expand the productional values any further - because there's no need, they are where they want to be, and they have their little listener base who think like-wise. I'm a bit slow to respond, eating and text messaging the same time. I'm also bad at arguing and forming my thoughts into words, really. Edit: And just to add this: I do understand your view too CCVP, at least I think I do, so I'm not trying to turn you into a  BM lover or anything.

ahahaha, you understand it quite well actually. Better than most black metal fans I have ever run into, believe it or not!

Vehemency wrote: Matt wrote: Thanks Vehemcy for the announcement. I have never even heard the band but with the differing opinions looks like I will soon. We've went somewhat off-topic here for a while, heh, but it's great to get some real discussion.  Good that it got you interested!

Don't need to tell me that again, man. It is good to discuss MUSIC in a MUSIC forum for a change. Jeez, that Theist vs Atheis thread is making me crazy.


Edited by CCVP - 06 Sep 2010 at 4:42pm

Matt wrote: CCVP wrote: Vehemency wrote: Matt wrote: Thanks Vehemcy for the announcement. I have never even heard the band but with the differing opinions looks like I will soon. We've went somewhat off-topic here for a while, heh, but it's great to get some real discussion.  Good that it got you interested! Don't need to tell me that again, man. It is good to discuss MUSIC in a MUSIC forum for a change. Jeez, that Theist vs Atheis thread is making me crazy.   There is no better subject than music.

Most definitely.