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Collaborator's Handbook Released

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adg211288 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:17pm
Just published version 1.1.0 of the handbook after taking on board several bits of feedback.

Changes:

Added missing note that biographies should be factual and written in a neutral tone. 

Clarified note about compilations containing the same stuff but being considered different releases rather than reissues.

Clarified note about cover artwork size on Movies etc, as well as using a picture of boxsets to show the size and look of the box.

Greatly extended the Release Entries, The Requirements section and renamed it to What to Put on Release Entries. This section is why I changed the version number to v1.1.0 instead of v1.0.4, because of a clear rule change from providing a full release history, to only including significant variations on the original release. It also defines what can be seen as longer term goals, in which section I've but the reissues business. 

Finally added a note about MusicBrainz not working (Doubt it ever will again at this point). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unitron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:33pm
I have a question about old biographies that are just the Wikipedia articles. Should those be re-written?
Oh, so it's bring my own? Bring my own what? FUN?! - Ludichrist
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:34pm
Yes, definitely. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pekka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:45pm
Permission problems again after the update.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:47pm
Web Wiz Weirdness strikes yet again. Angry

That's it, the contents links were a nice simple idea that should have worked (and would have done if we had phpBB) but they have to go. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pekka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:49pm
I can't even get to the thread now.

The links weren't working for me at any point, but it was nice to have the chapters listed up there, so save them please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:52pm
I will restore a full list of the chapters to the OP with no links.

Try this link to get onto the guide (you should be able to access it from any public forum though).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unitron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:53pm
Just wrote a bio for Porcupine Tree (The original bio was just Wikipedia)

This is going to take a while, I've noticed many bands on here have Wikipedia articles as bios. Even Iron Maiden has a Wikipedia bio! Shocked
Oh, so it's bring my own? Bring my own what? FUN?! - Ludichrist
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:57pm
I have just managed to rehome the original copy of the Handbook thread to a public forum which will hopefully put an end to permission errors. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unitron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Added missing note that biographies should be factual and written in a neutral tone. 

With this in place, should previously opinionated biographies be updated as well?  
Oh, so it's bring my own? Bring my own what? FUN?! - Ludichrist
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pekka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

Even Iron Maiden has a Wikipedia bio! Shocked
Uh-oh!

Thanks Adam, works now. Regarding bios, many times it's hard enough to scrape together anything, but then there are cases like Maiden where you could write a book about it if you liked. Any recommendations on length? 

Check for example the one for Rammstein, which inspired the "read more" option back when we started. Nobody is ever going to read that thing through. 



Edited by Pekka - 23 Sep 2014 at 4:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Added missing note that biographies should be factual and written in a neutral tone. 

With this in place, should previously opinionated biographies be updated as well?  

If there are any such biographies present that were written by collabs then yes, you have permission to change them (though please try to preserve anything that does meet the guidelines).

If the biographies aren't original then go ahead and rewrite as much as you like. 


Edited by adg211288 - 23 Sep 2014 at 5:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by Pekka Pekka wrote:

Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

Even Iron Maiden has a Wikipedia bio! Shocked
Uh-oh!

Thanks Adam, works now. Regarding bios, many times it's hard enough to scrape together anything, but then there are cases like Maiden where you could write a book about it if you liked. Any recommendations on length? 

Check for example the one for Rammstein, which inspired the "read more" option back when we started. Nobody is ever going to read that thing through. 


That does look quite excessive. 

hmm...obviously the longer an artist is around and the more prolific they get the more there will be to write about them.

I wouldn't want to impose any limitations on length but personally speaking (bearing in mind that most artists I've added in recent times are new-ish) I've stuck to one or two paragraph jobs (lacking major details though because that's where time will get really soaked up). For bands I like I've written more of course. I'll throw in a few examples here.

Longer ones:

http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/blind-guardian
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/anubis-gate
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/within-temptation

Shorter ones:

http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/mindmaze
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/neonfly
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/lucifers-heritage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pekka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 2:52pm
Quote A selection of Release Type. While most cases are self explanatory, care should be taken with re-recorded albums, which some artist count among their full-lengths but others as compilations, as well as promo only singles. 

Concerning this part, there are things that overlap, like live EP's, live box sets and split DVD's, so should it be spelled out where to place them? I think in the past I've had to move them around.

I hope the consensus is that in all these cases it's the latter marker that's the overriding type.

Singles and EP's might be a tricky business as well, some bands might call a three song ten minute release an EP, some call a five song 25 minute release a single, and then there's some Metallica singles where the same five or six tracks might be called a single in the US and an EP in Japan. 

And then there is Reverend Bizarre's Harbinger of Metal, a 74 minute EP.

I suppose we try to follow what the band has called the release, but if there's no mention at all, should there be some sort of track limit between singles and EP's? (This might be such a rare problem that it's no use even thinking about it, but it popped into my head.) And Maxi-singles vs. EP's?

What about Official Bootlegs, by the way (like for example Dream Theater and Uriah Heep)? They're of course allowed, but should they be among the live albums or other releases?


Edited by Pekka - 24 Sep 2014 at 3:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bosh66 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 3:30pm
Good questions there Pekka. I'll let Adam opine, but here's my two penn'orth..

"I hope the consensus is that in all these cases it's the latter marker that's the overriding type." - that's where I put them. Agreed.

On EP length, that's a minefield. A main song with two/three bonus live tracks or variants lasting 20 minutes is an extended single in my book. An 6 minute CD or 7" with three new, equally weighted tracks is an EP in my view.

A 25 minute EP could equally be an album. I guess I take the lead from the artist if available. A 74 minute EP must be an album surely (or perhaps is a Very Extended Player (VEP)) Wink


Edited by Bosh66 - 24 Sep 2014 at 3:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 4:29pm
We could probably make this clearer, yes.

Of course we should always check what an artist lists a release as. Failing that it cannot hurt to try other sites like wikipedia, EM, RYM etc to see what they list something as. There should be some clear cut rules laid down if all that fails though.

Regarding Live EP's, split DVD's etc then yes, I agree that the latter marker is best used to tag them. That should be a rule even if an artist likes to group a live EP with a live album for example. 

As Chris says, lengths are indeed a minefield. Take Hirax's Hate, Fear and Power. It is considered a full-length. It's duration? 16 minutes. Then you have A Hero for the World's On Fire, which is considered as an EP, looks like a compilation and runs for 77 and a half minutes. 

This are the rules as I use them failing finding an artist's classification:

Re-recorded -> full-length
Covers -> full-length (unless they're not from the same recording sessions, then it's a comp)
Promo single -> promos (though I kinda wish that section was on a drop down like the official singles)

I'll have a look at what I can do on the guide regarding this tomorrow. Need to catch up on some sleep now. 


Edited by adg211288 - 24 Sep 2014 at 4:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bosh66 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 4:31pm
Just another thought. Care should also be taken with promos. A promo is usually issued to give away say in in magazines, or to radio stations and record shops or as an album taster. Not metal, but Marrillion sells its promos for a nominal amount as a band sampler. Often what are called promos (2009 Promo or Promo 1999 for example) are in reality demo recordings. Not always apparent though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 1:28am
That's true about demo's but it's a lesser issue as those releases are put in the same place anyway. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bosh66 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 1:32am
Lol, yes that's right. It was late when I suggested that issue LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pekka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 4:38am
One interesting thing I noticed is that Uriah Heep has apparently re-recorded their old songs twice, the official discography lists the first one (Remasters - Official Anthology) as a compilation and the second one (Celebration) as a full length album. So that's how I've put them.
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