Review Etiquette and Rationale |
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adg211288
Forum Admin Group Black Metal, Prog/AG Teams Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 21996 |
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I've given an artist I really like a very low rating before. I consider the review respectful for the most part although I did end it by saying I only recommend it as a spare beer mat - the frustrated fan in me talking there. I'm talking about this one:
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/the-scythe--review.aspx?id=228877
If you are struggling you can feel free to PM me the review for a once over.
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dtguitarfan
MMA Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 19 May 2012 Location: Chattanooga, TN Status: Offline Points: 481 |
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Man, I'm struggling right now to write a review for a favorite artist - the artist is a favorite of mine, but I don't think his new album is all that great. I mean, I loved some of the tracks, but over all I don't think I'd recommend it. So I'm struggling to write a positive/negative review - positive about the artist but honest about the fact that I didn't think the album was his best.
I've only ever written one absolutely scathing review, and I probably wasn't respectful but dang it, I was mad, haha! I never put it up here - it's over on Prog Archives, but I'm telling you it seems like no one gives anything by this artist anything but 5 stars, and when I was listening to it it just seemed so out there and weird - like, come on, be honest that this is NOT for everyone, you know? 5 stars should mean that you would instantly recommend it to anyone and everyone, and it seemed like anyone should be able to recognize that this one was NOT for anyone and everyone, by a long shot. I don't know if that makes sense, but there it is. Rant over, haha! |
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adg211288
Forum Admin Group Black Metal, Prog/AG Teams Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 21996 |
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Yeah sometimes no matter how hard I look I can't find much to say about an album, especially ones I gave mid-range ratings to.
Of course negative reviews are the hardest to write. But I think the important thing to remember is that honesty is the best approach, and in my experience artists appreciate that. It's definitely possible to write a negative review while being respectful. Actually thinking about it, on the talk of professionalism with reviews, I think that the ability to write a respectful negative review is about the ultimate test.
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UMUR
MMA Special Collaborator Errors & Omissions Team / Retired Admin Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 18094 |
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Yeah there is definitely a thing about flow and a sometimes a failing muse that has to be taken into consideration. I�m much happier about some of my reviews than others. Especially the reviews I do for promos, where it�s not necessarily music I personally favor or know much about, can be hard to write.
There is also a question of some albums just not being interesting enough to write a whole essay about. There are many pretty generic/standard releases out there and sometimes my reviews of those come off as "honorable mentions" rather than detailed reviews. I�m fully conscious about that and I don�t see it as an issue. If someone feel I haven�t given an album enough credit or haven�t mentioned enough details they are always welcome to post their own review mentioning all the details I missed. Or they can bitch and whine in the shouts section ...of course shouts still need to be somewhat respectful but if people don�t agree with what I write I would love to hear what they have to say.
Edited by UMUR - 05 Jun 2012 at 8:40am |
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adg211288
Forum Admin Group Black Metal, Prog/AG Teams Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 21996 |
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I agree with that, but I do find that with some really short reviews that they could be talking about pretty much any album of that band or genre. I don't find that helpful at all.
I have stopped reading the reviews except for the featured ones, since they're longer and more in depth. And I wouldn't say that these short reviews are 'bad', no matter who's doing them, they're just not for me. I think the important thing to remember with any reviewer regardless of their style is that not every review is going to be the best work they can do. I find with some albums the words just won't flow at all. For albums I was reviewing off my own back I'd just abandon it in such cases, at least temporarily, but for promos I do try to review all of them.
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Time Signature
MMA Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 04 Apr 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 7690 |
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I rarely read that mag, and when I do, I never read the reviews, but I have read my share of similar reviews in other mags (and here I have to be honest, I think that most main stream print metal mags are next to useless). I think that the type of very short review that you refer to is often next to useless - so we agree there. There can be good reviews of that type nonetheless, but the writer will really have to know the art of information packaging and information compression. And, I think that we do have some reviewers her on MMA who are very good at that. I find it surprising that the Metal Hammer reviews are as bad as you say they are, because the Metal Hammer writers have worked within that format for ages (and they kind of have an excuse for writing those short reviews, since their mag is a physical one with word limits and layout conventions etc.), so one should expect that they have developed some strategies to get the most out of whatever space they have to write reviews in. I should say that I did not bash long reviews in the previous post of mine... it's just that I do not have the patience or the time to read them because of the amount of reading I do in my day job, so, when it comes to long reviews, I generally only read the ones about releases that I am really interested in. |
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UMUR
MMA Special Collaborator Errors & Omissions Team / Retired Admin Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 18094 |
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I�ve read very short reviews, that were very useful and long ones that were a complete waste of time (and space). It all depends on the reviewer and his/her writing style.
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adg211288
Forum Admin Group Black Metal, Prog/AG Teams Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 21996 |
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Thanks mate, means a lot. It's ironic, but I actually have EM to thank for my standard of reviewing. Say what you like about their policies on what is metal and what isn't, but they do know how to get the best out of reviewers.
I'm going to be honest but I find most very short reviews, as in single paragraph ones, next to useless, especially the ones printed in the UK's Metal Hammer magazine. |
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Time Signature
MMA Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 04 Apr 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 7690 |
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Yeah, I prefer shorter reviews, too. I generally do not read review that are very long - except if it is a release that I am really interested in or if the review is very well written, humorous or innovative (I think this has to do with my day job which requires that I do a lot of reading, meaning that I am generally reading-saturated in my spare time - and the same thing goes for writing). I prefer writing short reviews for the same reason (also, I am generally very busy IRL, so I rarely have time to write elaborate and lengthy reviews). That being said, I do enjoy experimenting with different review styles, such as the fanboy rant or the metaphor-riddled review or the vocative review or the would-be academic review, and I plan to do some nonsensical reviews for some avant-garde metal releases (I think they'd be very fitting). I find negative reviews more challenging to write because I really don't want to be a dick and just bash the release, plus I always try to find at least some positive aspects of such releases (or at least aspects which other listeners might find positive). I do enjoy reading negative reviews because they can be very entertaining - like Wilytank's brilliant dialogue review of Black Veil Brides' "Set the World on Fire". One thing I refrain from is attacking the musicians personally - ad hominem reviews have no value whatsoever in my book, because they say nothing about the music itself and they just make the reviewer come across as a dickhead. And, in general, I like the variety of reviews we get here on the MMA. That's also one of the things that I really appreciate about this site.
I agree... which is why I found that whole situation, when a rabid Sun caged fan went on a massive rant because Stephen wrote a negative review of their latest album, quite interesting. I remember that the guy ended up concluding that the MMA was not a worthy site because we're not professional reviewers (somewhere on Facebook where the whole "conflict" originated). It should be mentioned that Paul from Sun Caged took a much more constructive and diplomatic approach to the whole situation and the distinction between professional and amateur reviewers. |
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Diogenes
MMA Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 06 Nov 2010 Location: Undecided Status: Offline Points: 877 |
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Take this for what it's worth, but you're the one guy on this site I would model my reviews after, if possible. Your writing is very professional but still has a looot of detail, which is where I want to end up with my reviews eventually. And per the bolded, I think that's why it's beneficial to try to review as many subgenres as possible; to learn more about them and expand your horizons, sure, but also so you don't have to write "Modern Thrash band X plays metal that is heavily influenced by bands such as Exodus and Slayer" hundreds of times. Being someone who strives to write something unique for each review, I don't think I'd be able to stomach that. |
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dreadpirateroberts
Forum Groupie Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Location: AUS Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Hahaha! I'm on fire of late - all over the shop, I need a decent night's sleep for once!
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We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
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UMUR
MMA Special Collaborator Errors & Omissions Team / Retired Admin Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 18094 |
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yeah I did find your comment lacking something.
Edited by UMUR - 31 May 2012 at 1:59am |
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adg211288
Forum Admin Group Black Metal, Prog/AG Teams Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 21996 |
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I write for my own website first and foremost. How 'professional' you want to call that is up for debate, since we're entirely non-profit. Though being part of a community that helps you find new music is rewarding in its own right. Call us(me) semi-professional if you will, after all I do receive promos from some labels.
I have a semi-set in stone style of reviewing which I sometimes intentionally break depending on how the words flow. I seem to have sub-consciously picked up a trait from Jonas with starting review like "Album is that whatever number album from so and so band" etc. It's a good way to get going, as I often find the hardest line to write is the first one. The rest of my reviews typically cover the same stuff in varying length. It's all about how the words flow. Some albums I find need more said on them than others, especially if the album has both positive and negative aspects to cover. Take my recent Augury reviews. I prefer Concealed, yet I wrote a fair bit more for Fragmentary Evidence. My familiarity with a band can also affect my reviews. Sometimes if its my first encounter with an established band I will says that the review is from the perspective a newcomer. If I'm familiar with the band though they may get graded based on what expectations I had from them as much as from their genre. I also have varying standards from different sub-genres since with metal as diverse as it is if I looked for the same positives in every sub there'd be some subs always getting lower or higher reviews. As such I tend to be more critical on some, such as symphonic metal, where I'm really not interested these days if all you can do is be a poor intimation of what Nightwish or Epica is already doing better.
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Diogenes
MMA Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 06 Nov 2010 Location: Undecided Status: Offline Points: 877 |
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That's kind of why I started this thread, so we can get to know each other a little better as reviewers. Lots of great stuff here so far, keep it coming! We do have a lot of members on this site who also write for more "professional" websites, I think. That's a word you have to take with a grain of salt; I can't tell you how many times I've been frustrated with "professional" sports analysts who think that they're all that just because they're on TV, while there are college students making far better analyses on message boards. Especially with something like music, where mostly everything is subjective, you kinda have to fend for yourself when reading people's opinions...but that's far better than those opinions not being shared at all because the site won't allow it. |
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dreadpirateroberts
Forum Groupie Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Location: AUS Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Just realised I missed the name of the publication before - apologies
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We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
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Time Signature
MMA Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 04 Apr 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 7690 |
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I agree on this one. |
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Wilytank
MMA Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 24 Mar 2011 Location: Pencil-vainea Status: Offline Points: 4028 |
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One other thing I like about EM is the ability to add a witty review title. Now I don't go out of my way to think one up and often I just take a part of the lyrics, but titles to reviews definitely add some more personal touch to the review. Unfortunately, there's people who take the boring approach: [band name] - [album title], and those reviews don't catch my eye as much. Titles aren't necessary, but they can sure make reviews noticeable.
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dreadpirateroberts
Forum Groupie Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Location: AUS Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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^ true, too many of the worst, worst, worst reviews I've ever read have been by professionals - like the turkey who reviewed LZII for Rolling Stone - can't recall his name, but it sucked.
Edited by dreadpirateroberts - 30 May 2012 at 5:37pm |
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We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
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UMUR
MMA Special Collaborator Errors & Omissions Team / Retired Admin Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 18094 |
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^I think I prefer the bare bones concise reviews, but that�s subjective and one of the great things about a site like MMA. You have the opportunity to read reviews by many different people, who write in their own style (long ones, detailed ones, not so detailed ones and short ones). Some you�ll trust and some you won�t. Some you�ll prefer and some you probably won�t read that often. I like the fact that the reviews on this site, are written by "regular" folks contra so called "professional" reviewers, who often IMO aren�t better at writing reviews than many of the people here. They are just as subjective in their opinions as everyone else.
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Wilytank
MMA Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 24 Mar 2011 Location: Pencil-vainea Status: Offline Points: 4028 |
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I've never had a solid outline for my reviews besides an intro and conclusion. I've made it a point to talk about as many good or bad things I can identify, which is why I look down upon bare bones reviews for not saying much at all.
One thing I would like to say is that rating albums out of five stars is way too general for my liking. I much prefer rating things out of 100 like Encyclopaedia Metallum does it. 5/5 does not equal 100/100 in my system. My system for conversion is as follows 5/5 = 95/100 to 100/100 4.5/5 = 89/100 to 94/100 4/5 = 79/100 to 88/100 3.5/5 = 73/100 to 78/100 3/5 = 60/100 to 72/100 2.5/5 = 50/100 to 59/100 2/5 = 36/100 to 49/100 1.5/5 = 20/100 to 35/100 1/5 = 11/100 to 19/100 0.5/5 = 10/100 and below. So far, I've only published one 0.5/5 album to EM (Torsofuck's Erotic Diarrhea Fantasy) which I gave a 3%.
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