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Now -- what are you listening to? V3

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 2:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by DippoMagoo DippoMagoo wrote:

Just making sure I haven't lost my love for Ayreon, after Transitus, and...... NOPE! The first track alone is a million times better than even the best tracks on the new album, tbh. That one just feels like a bigger letdown to me the more I think about it.

This is indeed better, as is perhaps every Ayreon album except maybe Actual Fantasy, but I can't think of Transitus as a letdown. It's just different. And I think that's OK. 

The Source has tons of singers in the same track most of the time, but Transitus keeps things much simpler. If we discount Baker's narration and Bovio/Westendorp as backing singers (same with all the Villagers) the most lead vocalists on any track here on Transitus is three, which is very restrained for modern Ayreon. Discounting the final song on The Source, three is the least amount of singers in the same song. 

I suppose you could say that Theory of Everything was also like that for its actual tracks, but the 20 minute suites in full used at least five of the seven. And all Ayreon albums except for TFE, AF, TDS and FotM all had songs that used considerable more than three singers in one song, even if they also had tracks with one or two at most. 

So I think if you go into Transitus expecting more of that you may come away disappointed. I'm not suggesting that's how you personally feel Travis, but it is something I wonder about when I see people complaining this one is not enough like The Source. Personally one of the things I like the most about it is that he did not rehash his other recent albums. This is a very unique record in his whole discography. I like it more with every listen. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DippoMagoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 3:20pm
^I just find the first half is excellent, but not quite on the same level as his best work, and then the second half just doesn't seem to be working for me, even after a few more listens. The lack of multiple vocalists on many tracks isn't that surprising, even if I do prefer that approach, but the fact the first half is pretty much all about Daniel, and then the second half seemingly ignores most of what the first half was about and focuses on other stuff is an unforgiveable flaw, imo. So much stuff seems to either be brushed aside quickly or ignored completely in the second half, like he was just rushing to tell the story as quickly as possible. And of course, the lack of memorable instrumental passages or clearly defines songs becomes noticeable when I'm not enjoying the story, which never happened on The Theory of Everything, but it does happen on this album.

 I'm about to give it one more shot, for now, but after re-listening to The Theory of Everything, even that one gave me the feeling I want from Ayreon, which Transitus doesn't seem to have on disc 2, aside from the two singles. 

Fifth listen for now, so iif t still doesn't go any better, I'll give it a break for at least a few months, I think.


Edited by DippoMagoo - 28 Sep 2020 at 3:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by DippoMagoo DippoMagoo wrote:

^I just find the first half is excellent, but not quite on the same level as his best work, and then the second half just doesn't seem to be working for me, even after a few more listens. The lack of multiple vocalists on many tracks isn't that surprising, even if I do prefer that approach, but the fact the first half is pretty much all about Daniel, and then the second half seemingly ignores most of what the first half was about and focuses on other stuff is an unforgiveable flaw, imo. So much stuff seems to either be brushed aside quickly or ignored completely in the second half, like he was just rushing to tell the story as quickly as possible. And of course, the lack of memorable instrumental passages or clearly defines songs becomes noticeable when I'm not enjoying the story, which never happened on The Theory of Everything, but it does happen on this album.

It really doesn't though. 

Okay, so there's one part that in the actual music that is really unclear without the comic and that's Lavinia's role in the event of disc 1. Lavinia is a medium and she gets a vision of Daniel's death in the fire and misunderstands what Abby was telling her father, thinking Abby murdered Daniel. This happens in track 1, in the comic panels. For some reason this is completely ignored in the actual music though, which is weird. 

It's this event that sets up Lavinia's actions on disc 2, as she feels like she is haunted by Daniel's ghost and turns to Henry, who she knows was always against Daniel and Abby being together. Henry further manipulates her, because that's the kind of guy Henry is. Henry's character is very firmly established on disc 1, which allows his part on disc 2 to make sense. Despite everything he did against him, Henry did love Daniel (whereas he seems to have been dead to his father for choosing Abby, which is probably why the father never appears again even at the funeral). Henry is not a good guy though, and is looking for someone to blame: Abby. And Lavinia, in her mistaken belief, gives him further cause to take action, which he does through manipulating her. 
 
Most of disc 1 either takes place in Transitus, the place between this world and the next, which is where Daniel actually is through the story since he dies in track 1 or are a flashback, which establish the background for the events of disc 2: why Henry is so against Abby and why Daniel needs to save Abby.

Disc 2 then takes three paths to its conclusion: Henry and Lavinia's plotting (Daniel's Funeral, Henry's Plot, Message from Beyond), Daniel trying to save Abby (Hopelessly Slipping Away, Daniel's Vision, She is Innocent), and what the Angel thinks about it all (This Human Equation). After Daniel is able to use Lavinia's ability as a medium to get a proper message to the world of the living (having previous failed to do more than have Abby and presumably other characters feel his presence - Henry claims to have, but we don't see/hear this, leaving it up to interpretation whether he really did or was just part of his manipulation of Lavinia), Lavinia realises what she'd done and runs to Abraham, who unfortunately is too late to stop Abby from committing suicide, just as Lavinia had suggested Daniel wanted. His rescue attempt results in his own death, again witnesses by Lavinia through her power, which causes her to fall down the stairs are die, which the implication being that the Angel sends her to hell, not willing to hear her excuses because in the end Lavinia was tempted by the prospect of the inheritance that her husband Abraham would get if Abby were to also die. 

Ultimately the story has a happy end with Daniel and Abby reuniting in Transitus and moving on to the next life together. I presume that Abraham also went to heaven rather than hell, but he's never shown in Transitus, unfortunately. In an epilogue page of the comic, not on the album for some reason, Henry is shown about to go to hell. 

The Transitus scenes in the comic have some symbolism if you look carefully at certain panels: those wearing white are heaven bound - black are going to hell. And this seems to be an internal judgement by oneself thing because Abby in in black all the way up to reuniting with Daniel and realising that she wasn't to blame (because she was blaming herself), then she's suddenly wearing white. 

I'm not saying that the story doesn't have problems from certain points of view. There's a lot we don't hear (but then we don't really need songs covering a whole week of Daniel trying to save Abby from beyond the grave) and it does rely on the comic an awful lot, but the story does make sense. At least as much as a story like this is supposed to make sense. And disc 2 definitely doesn't ignore disc 1. You've just got to interpret it right: in terms of a linear narrative, Condemned Without a Trial directly follows Fatum Horrificum. 

I hope that helps. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DippoMagoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 4:29pm
^Well, it went a bit better this time. I think it's better than Actual Fantasy and maybe the two Universal Migrator albums, but probably worse than all his other Ayreon albums. I think I can give it a very low 4.5, at this point.

Edited by DippoMagoo - 28 Sep 2020 at 4:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 4:34pm
For the actual music I think low end 4.5 is fair. He's made far better music. With this one though in terms of Ayreon another thing to remember is that he didn't set out to make an Ayreon album. I expect he decided to release it as Ayreon when it turned into a rock opera. It's unusual for him not to do another project between Ayreon albums. This seems more like an 'other project Ayreon'. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DippoMagoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 5:22pm
Yeah, I do think the story mostly makes sense now, but I still don't like it as much as usual. Musically, I do think the album is excellent, and I do love how he reprises many different sections from earlier towards the end. But, yeah, it definitely lacks the big highlights of most Ayreon albums, and isn't musically as adventurous or exciting as he can get. I heard an interview where he said he actually wanted it to be a movie, and he had arrangements in place, but because of the whole COVID-19 situation, he had to cancel that, and just made an album instead, which may explain why the album feels more cinematic and less like a stage musical than any of the past few Ayreon's. 

Finally giving this a shot, since I loved the first one. I have to take a break in 40 minutes, though, so I'll decide by then if I'm liking it enough to continue for a full listen later, or just drop it.

Edit: I'm loving it so far, so I'll definitely continue with it in about 2.5 hours, when I have time to finish it.


Edited by DippoMagoo - 28 Sep 2020 at 5:53pm
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Edited by Psydye - 29 Sep 2020 at 5:00am
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