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Triceratopsoil View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 10:34am
Topic for chatting about our picks & thought process for the "albums of the decade" voting without clogging up the main thread

Edited by adg211288 - 25 Feb 2020 at 10:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 10:38am
Couple thoughts I have had so far:

-I'm trying to limit the number of releases per artist, especially from very prolific musicians, but can't help but fanboy in a couple cases
-a lot of albums that initially came to mind turned out to be released 2007-2009, doh!
-I decided to start by listing all my contenders, narrowing it down to 50, and am now in the process of sorting them against each other (head to head between albums above/below until none of them move anymore)
-I've already found more things I initially forgot and definitely want to list though, doh!

good thing we have a long time to work on this
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 10:40am
That's exactly why we decided to set the end of June as the date Colin. We knew this would be hard. Fucking hard even. I'm nowhere near happy with my list yet. and I've started to checking out albums that I've missed as well, though none so far have been top 50 contenders on first listen. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 10:40am
Also, I've made this a sticky thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 10:54am
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

Couple thoughts I have had so far:

-I'm trying to limit the number of releases per artist, especially from very prolific musicians, but can't help but fanboy in a couple cases

I thought about this. I also thought about trying to only list the most innovative albums too. There's a few that I genuinely love but acknowledge don't bring a lot new to the table, if anything. 

Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

-I decided to start by listing all my contenders, narrowing it down to 50, and am now in the process of sorting them against each other (head to head between albums above/below until none of them move anymore)

I haven't re-listened to any yet, more listening to stuff I've missed completely. What I did for my first draft was to take all my five star ratings, as well as bump up some 4.5's that have gone up in estimations, and sorted them into two groups. Ones I really want to make sure get some of my points and ones I could live without not getting any. It hasn't worked too well though because there's a lot of albums I've got filed under The Unlucky Ones on my document that I've played to death, are by my favourite artists or just plains feels wrong to not include them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

I thought about this. I also thought about trying to only list the most innovative albums too. There's a few that I genuinely love but acknowledge don't bring a lot new to the table, if anything. 

I definitely put a lot of weight towards an unquantifiable "x-factor" that certain albums seem to have.  In general it feels like this decade has a lot fewer of the genre-defining classics that the previous 2 decades did; maybe that's just a factor of my age and tastes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vim Fuego Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

I thought about this. I also thought about trying to only list the most innovative albums too. There's a few that I genuinely love but acknowledge don't bring a lot new to the table, if anything. 

I definitely put a lot of weight towards an unquantifiable "x-factor" that certain albums seem to have.  In general it feels like this decade has a lot fewer of the genre-defining classics that the previous 2 decades did; maybe that's just a factor of my age and tastes.

I think we're all aging... I just noticed this morning that the top 5 albums on the site on the front page are all 30 years old or more!

I find watching YouTube videos of younger metal fans looking at what they call definitive or defining albums is quite useful for how things have changed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by Vim Fuego Vim Fuego wrote:

Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

I thought about this. I also thought about trying to only list the most innovative albums too. There's a few that I genuinely love but acknowledge don't bring a lot new to the table, if anything. 

I definitely put a lot of weight towards an unquantifiable "x-factor" that certain albums seem to have.  In general it feels like this decade has a lot fewer of the genre-defining classics that the previous 2 decades did; maybe that's just a factor of my age and tastes.

I think we're all aging... I just noticed this morning that the top 5 albums on the site on the front page are all 30 years old or more!

I find watching YouTube videos of younger metal fans looking at what they call definitive or defining albums is quite useful for how things have changed.

To be clear, there are still so many albums from the past decade that I absolutely love... I just struggle to see them having the same lasting impact on the future of heavy metal.  Even bands that are doing something "new" are more often then not mashing 2 old styles together

There are obviously exceptions to this too - bands like Triptykon have taken "doom metal" somewhere completely different than the slower, lower Black Sabbath that the subgenre trends towards.  Varg came out of prison and immediately gave the entire black metal scene a giant middle finger by putting out a totally fresh take on the style he was so instrumental in developing.  Aaron Turner's projects since Isis have been a total 180 from the direction that band had taken (he has said in an interview that he wishes Panopticon was the last Isis album...).  Newish bands like Lord Mantis and Inter Arma are difficult to compare to anything that came before them.

I guess TLDR: it's still exciting, but not in as clear of a way.  And the exciting stuff seems to be pushed further and further to the outskirts, as mainstream metal is dominated by 30+ year old bands doing the same album over and over again, or Andy Sneap overproducing every album into monotony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unitron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 4:29pm
I think the 2010's have probably been the weakest decade for music in general since the 60's, but at the end of the day it's all subjective. Personally though, I think a problem is that in our current internet-dominated culture, there's really not much of an underground music scene anymore. Let's face it, metal is mainstream these days, in the sense that there's several huge metal labels and I'd be surprised if there weren't at least some label plants in the scene. I think I can list on one hand the number of death metal bands today that still sound like death metal, instead of being over-produced and sterile.

and by mainstream, I don't mean just popular. I think most of the metal bands of the 70's, 80's, and 90's that got popular got there for a good reason. Many of them are among my favorite bands, Pantera, Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Judas Priest, Korn, Soundgarden, Ratt, Motley Crue, Alice in Chains, Black Sabbath, etc. These are all amazing bands, but it's not like they started out as major-label superstars. Many of today's metal bands I see start right off on Napalm, Nuclear Blast, Century Media, etc. 

As far as what is underground, most of it seems to be within electronic music, which I think has been the strongest genre in the past decade. With Bandcamp, it's easier than ever to release your own music, and unfortunately I haven't noticed many metal bands releasing their own stuff yet. (I've seen plenty of metal on Bandcamp obviously, but usually attached to a label. There's a few cool independent bands I've found though). Electronic artists have benefited most from Bandcamp in the past decade from what I've noticed.

There's a lot of pretentiousness these days as well within the general internet music populous, certain genres are shunned while others are propped up as the best. If a metal band today does something "new", it's bound to be some critic approved form of metal combined with another critic approved genre (For example, black metal and shoegaze, a very popular combination of two critic favorites. Also, this isn't a diss at those bands, just an observation. I liked the Alcest album I've heard, so I don't hate these bands). You'll never see a big beat or nu metal on any RYM top of the year chart, but you're bound to see a free jazz or shoegaze album there. In a sense, avant-garde is the new mainstream in some circles.

I just listen to whatever sounds good to me, whatever the genre, but this is just something I've observed and for all I know I'm talking a bunch of shit. This could get into a way deeper philosophical discussion and I don't know how well I could communicate that on a forum. Tongue

As far as how I decide what to vote for, I'm planning on (and already started) re-listening to several albums from the past decade and maybe check out some new ones if they sound interesting. I'm just voting for whatever albums I like best, limiting myself by artist or something would make it too hard.

If anyone's got any recommendations for something you think I'd like, send them my way. Nothing political please (unless very vague and doesn't get in the way of the music), and I'm open to most metal genres. I usually don't like black metal, prog metal, hardcore/grindcore, modern death metal, or modern power metal though, with few exceptions. I haven't checked out much of it from this decade, but the sludge I've heard have sounded really good (Floor's Oblation and Kylesa's Exhausting Fire in particular), so some sludge recs would be nice.

Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

I guess TLDR: it's still exciting, but not in as clear of a way.  And the exciting stuff seems to be pushed further and further to the outskirts, as mainstream metal is dominated by 30+ year old bands doing the same album over and over again, or Andy Sneap overproducing every album into monotony

Just read this after writing that spiel. Somewhat of a condensed version of some points I made. Though I would say it's more dominated by newer bands that maybe or maybe not are label plants as well as some of those old bands. LOL

Andy Sneap isn't the only one to blame, it's almost any album released on Napalm, Nuclear Blast, or Century Media.


Edited by Unitron - 25 Feb 2020 at 5:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

and by mainstream, I don't mean just popular. I think most of the metal bands of the 70's, 80's, and 90's that got popular got there for a good reason. Many of them are among my favorite bands, Pantera, Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Judas Priest, Korn, Soundgarden, Ratt, Motley Crue, Alice in Chains, Black Sabbath, etc. These are all amazing bands, but it's not like they started out as major-label superstars. Many of today's metal bands I see start right off on Napalm, Nuclear Blast, Century Media, etc. 

As far as what is underground, most of it seems to be within electronic music, which I think has been the strongest genre in the past decade. With Bandcamp, it's easier than ever to release your own music, and unfortunately I haven't noticed many metal bands releasing their own stuff yet. (I've seen plenty of metal on Bandcamp obviously, but usually attached to a label. There's a few cool independent bands I've found though). Electronic artists have benefited most from Bandcamp in the past decade from what I've noticed.

There's a lot of pretentiousness these days as well within the general internet music populous, certain genres are shunned while others are propped up as the best. If a metal band today does something "new", it's bound to be some critic approved form of metal combined with another critic approved genre (For example, black metal and shoegaze, a very popular combination of two critic favorites. Also, this isn't a diss at those bands, just an observation. I liked the Alcest album I've heard, so I don't hate these bands). You'll never see a big beat or nu metal on any RYM top of the year chart, but you're bound to see a free jazz or shoegaze album there. In a sense, avant-garde is the new mainstream in some circles.

I'd say you're on the money with critic-approved metal; there seem to be forced trends, partly due to the Profound Lore/Nuclear Blast dominance, partly due to there only being like 3 sites for metal journalism.  Blackgaze & atmospheric sludge are everywhere now.  Satanism in black metal is another one; none of the 2nd wave bands worshipped satan in any way shape or form, it's a trend that some journalists made up back in the day but now it almost defines the genre.  

I could rant about this stuff for a long time LOL

RE: Andy Sneap - him and his (now mostly defunct) forum are part of the reason every metal band uses all the same gear and production techniques (EMG > tubescreamer > 5150 > Vintage 30 > SM57).  And he's part of the reason everybody uses triggers on drums now, and is switching to modelling amps & impulse responses now (which sound TERRIBLE, I can tell immediately; this is the reason Exodus for example sounds totally different after Atrocity Exhibition 1) 

Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

so some sludge recs would be nice.

OLD MAN GLOOM


Edited by Triceratopsoil - 25 Feb 2020 at 6:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unitron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:


I'd say you're on the money with critic-approved metal; there seem to be forced trends, partly due to the Profound Lore/Nuclear Blast dominance, partly due to there only being like 3 sites for metal journalism.  Blackgaze & atmospheric sludge are everywhere now.  Satanism in black metal is another one; none of the 2nd wave bands worshipped satan in any way shape or form, it's a trend that some journalists made up back in the day but now it almost defines the genre.  

I could rant about this stuff for a long time LOL

RE: Andy Sneap - him and his (now mostly defunct) forum are part of the reason every metal band uses all the same gear and production techniques (EMG > tubescreamer > 5150 > Vintage 30 > SM57).  And he's part of the reason everybody uses triggers on drums now, and is switching to modelling amps & impulse responses now (which sound TERRIBLE, I can tell immediately; this is the reason Exodus for example sounds totally different after Atrocity Exhibition 1) 

Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

so some sludge recs would be nice.

OLD MAN GLOOM

3 sites for metal journalism, and all of them rags worth less than toilet paper, and don't get me started on black metal. LOL Music journalism in general should probably just go away, at least in this culture. At least it seemed to be somewhat fun back in the 80's and 90's based on the old metal mags I've read. Seems to hurt artists more than help them these days.

Ah, so Sneap started the modern style of metal production basically? That would explain why the drums always sound so damn tinny on many new albums, especially death metal, which is one of the main reasons why I just can't stand most new death metal.

I'll check out some Old Man Gloom.


Edited by Unitron - 25 Feb 2020 at 7:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 11:36pm
Personally I find most innovation is found in modern black metal. And generally not within so called blackgaze acts. 

Progenie Terrestre Pura - oltreLuna - this is one of my tops from the last decade. A real brilliant release. Their debut was also good but this is much harder sounding and with more outside of the box influences creeping in. Even dubstep for fucks sake. 

Winterhorde - Underwatermoon/Maestro - really puts the actual prog into (melodic) black metal. 

Entropia - Ufonaut - a kind of post-black metal that isn't actually too atmospheric, but hard and riffy. 

Aquilus - Griseus - his combination of black metal with folk music and sections of pure classical works really well. One of the last decade's most epic BM albums. 

Hail Spirit Noir - all three albums - their take on blending black metal with old school psych rock remains a unqiue take on both styles in my experience. All three albums are bloody brilliant, especially the most recent Mayhem in Blue. 

Absolutely none of these acts are blackgaze. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unitron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 11:53pm
Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Personally I find most innovation is found in modern black metal. And generally not within so called blackgaze acts. 

Progenie Terrestre Pura - oltreLuna - this is one of my tops from the last decade. A real brilliant release. Their debut was also good but this is much harder sounding and with more outside of the box influences creeping in. Even dubstep for fucks sake. 


That album sounds interesting, may check that out.

I wasn't trying to imply that most black metal today is just blackgaze, I was just using it as an example of a popular combination of two genres that are generally pretty popular among critics. I'm sure there is really unique stuff coming from there as you say, and if I was more of a black metal fan I'd probably be more excited about it. Music wise, it's just a matter of personal taste, but my biggest problems with black metal are with the scene. Both the trve kvlt purists, and on the other side the RYM elitists who act like black metal is so much better, creative, and higher art than any other metal. Goes to what I was saying about avant-garde being the new mainstream in some ways.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 1:18am
https://open.spotify.com/album/5PXXQiqStTTfM3goTYoihp

The dubstep bit is in the title track. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 666sharon666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 2:59am
I feel like I could probably get a list of 50 and only have black metal on it to be honest. But I will try to vary it as much as possible. Just trying to narrow down all my five stars for now. I sometimes forget to leave ratings though, so I don't have an easy list to check. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 4:34am
Started some relistens now and re-ranking my list as I go. Good thing, because I already have one that wasn't on my first draft ranked higher than some that were. Right now I have eight albums that I feel are ranked correctly in relation to each other. Ones I've played today or very recently. The rest will probably look very different to what I posted in my first draft. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unitron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 11:29am
Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

https://open.spotify.com/album/5PXXQiqStTTfM3goTYoihp

The dubstep bit is in the title track. 

Listened through some of it, sounded good though it has the same issue that I have with Apartment 26's Music for the Massive. When the dubstep and other non-ambient electronic elements are there, it sounds REALLY good, but I don't think they utilize them enough. I'll be looking forward to seeing if they do on their next album though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 11:19pm
^ They also released a non-metal EP in 2014. No dubstep (that I recall), but RYM filed it between space ambient and IDM. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unitron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 11:46pm
^Title track sounds really good, that'll probably end up making my top non metal list.

If you like that sound, I can recommend some of Eat Static's stuff, this song in particular: 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2020 at 5:17am
If anyone is interested, based on ratings and reviews left alone, these are the site's top 100 albums of the 2010s.

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