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Is this racist?

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Vim Fuego View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vim Fuego Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is this racist?
    Posted: 18 Aug 2017 at 3:25pm


We just had a great review of Body Count's debut on the front page, and we have a pretty good entry for this band in our database. However, if you go looking for it in what is often considered metal's most authoritative database, there's not a trace...

Does anybody else think this smacks of racism, metal elitism, or just plain ignorance? There are plenty of other bands fronted by rappers on that database, and a lot of bands far less metal than Body Count. I have previously looked into the reasons why Body Count aren't on that site, and they don't seem to be very good ones.

In the light of current political climates in certain parts of the world, I was just wondering what everyone else thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bosh66 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2017 at 4:29pm
You may be right, give the worrying rise of intolerance across the globe, but I'd guess it's just good old fashioned EM elitism and ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keefer1970 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2017 at 5:52pm
Quote Does anybody else think this smacks of racism, metal elitism, or just plain ignorance?

Probably a mix of all three. 

For the record, that new Body Count album is badass. Probably their best since the debut. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unitron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2017 at 11:20pm
No. 

It's EM, they just won't accept anything that has anything to do with rap, funk, nu, or alternative metal.
Oh, so it's bring my own? Bring my own what? FUN?! - Ludichrist
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2017 at 12:24am
It´s their loss, and one of the reasons why we initially launched MMA to be a more widely perspective hard rock and heavy metal site. It wasn´t a given when MMA started what was going to be accepted, but thankfully through good dialogue and intensive discussions those of us who where here the first couple of years, decided that we didn´t want an elitist type site. We wanted to appeal to a broader audience, and changing admin teams through the site´s living time has backed and evolved that idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2017 at 12:57am
I think the ultimate goal of EM and MMA are very different in spirit. 

EM seems to want to play dictator by denying entire metal genres for the most part (such as alternative, industrial, metalcore, most grindcore and even most modern progressive metal too). The irony is they then don't blink an eye to the very un-metal side projects they allow, though they have been suddenly removing a lot of these from the site who have been there years. 

MMA on the other hand is looking to provide a complete resource without bias - a website that everyone can use no matter what their view on what counts as metal. Obviously we have to have standards when doing it because we do need to be taken seriously, including and especially by the EM type of metalhead, since if we try to pass off bands who nobody else really calls metal people won't trust our information. That's why we have quite an extensive selection of supplemental subs like Hard Rock, MR and Hardcore, so we can provide that complete picture. It's why I hope that we'll only continue to expand our selection of sub-genre options, both in the metal ones and in the MR section. EM is only likely to get tougher and tougher on what it considers metal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vim Fuego Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2017 at 1:05am
Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

No. 

It's EM, they just won't accept anything that has anything to do with rap, funk, nu, or alternative metal.


They are pretty selective in their discrimination.
Faith No More
Scatterbrain
Mordred
Suicidal Tendencies

I've also seen the convoluted twists and turns as they try to define certain bands out, but leave others in (namely Bring Me The Horizon, Dillinger Escape Plan, and Last Days of Humanity. However, Ministry has been let in), which is part of the reason many of their grindcore bands are wrongly also tagged brutal death metal, just so they can get in there.

It's a privately owned website and all, and they can do what they like with it, but still, to me it isn't a good look for metal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bosh66 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2017 at 2:20am
Bands like Dillinger are rejected as non-metal. They're just punk bands with loud guitars, apparently. No mathcore is there. Apparently you can't bang your head to Carbomb so it's not metal. There's a lot of atmospheric black metal that is there that I'd struggle to headbang to. Some metalcore and deathcore is there, but only if it's much more thrash or death than hardcore, which is why bands are often tagged as death metal/hardcore or thrash/metalcore. I have seen a non-deathgrind grindcore band there, but they are few and often get removed. It leads to an incomplete and inconsistent approach. But it's their call and gives us an opportunity.
They do a lot right though. Details and discographies are often much more complete than on our site. And they have so many more artists there than we do and importantly add them at a much more prolific rate too. This gives them the credibility they have in the wider metal community, something we are still building. But we'll get there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unitron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2017 at 9:35am
Originally posted by Vim Fuego Vim Fuego wrote:

Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

No. 

It's EM, they just won't accept anything that has anything to do with rap, funk, nu, or alternative metal.


They are pretty selective in their discrimination.
Scatterbrain
Mordred
Suicidal Tendencies


Those bands are probably on there because they have origins in thrash, and Faith No More I'm sure is on there only because they like them. 

We all know that EM is a shitty elitist website, but that doesn't mean people should go around saying they might be racist just because they don't have Body Count on the site. If they were racist, these bands probably wouldn't be on there:


I can't believe I'm having to defend EM.


Edited by Unitron - 19 Aug 2017 at 9:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aglasshouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2017 at 9:53am
Come the fuck on. Anyone's who's been on Metallum for one day knows they just pick and choose what is on the site based on what they deem is good. It has nothing to do with race- Body Count isn't on there probably because, like a majority bands under the alternative metal label, they don't believe they are "actual metal" by their standards.

Don't jump to conclusions about race in an argument where it may not belong. It's a very dangerous horse to ride.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vim Fuego Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2017 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by aglasshouse aglasshouse wrote:

Come the fuck on. Anyone's who's been on Metallum for one day knows they just pick and choose what is on the site based on what they deem is good. It has nothing to do with race- Body Count isn't on there probably because, like a majority bands under the alternative metal label, they don't believe they are "actual metal" by their standards.

Don't jump to conclusions about race in an argument where it may not belong. It's a very dangerous horse to ride.


I think you might have jumped to a conclusion there. Read the thread title again. "Is this racist?" is a question, not a statement like "This is racist". I'll put you down as a "no".

For the record, I have talked to Morrigan from EM (one of the webmasters) about this band, and others, not on the site, so I know where their official line is. I was asking for other opinions.
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