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Collaborator's Handbook Released |
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adg211288 
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Black Metal, Prog/AG Teams Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 22198 |
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 Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:17pm |
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Just published version 1.1.0 of the handbook after taking on board several bits of feedback.
Changes: Added missing note that biographies should be factual and written in a neutral tone. Clarified note about compilations containing the same stuff but being considered different releases rather than reissues. Clarified note about cover artwork size on Movies etc, as well as using a picture of boxsets to show the size and look of the box. Greatly extended the Release Entries, The Requirements section and renamed it to What to Put on Release Entries. This section is why I changed the version number to v1.1.0 instead of v1.0.4, because of a clear rule change from providing a full release history, to only including significant variations on the original release. It also defines what can be seen as longer term goals, in which section I've but the reissues business. Finally added a note about MusicBrainz not working (Doubt it ever will again at this point).
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Unitron
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 30 Apr 2014 Location: Cypress Hill Status: Offline Points: 8051 |
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Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:33pm |
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I have a question about old biographies that are just the Wikipedia articles. Should those be re-written?
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If I say fuck two more times that's forty-six fucks in this fucked up rhyme
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adg211288
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Black Metal, Prog/AG Teams Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 22198 |
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Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:34pm |
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Yes, definitely.
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Pekka
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 26 Mar 2010 Location: Helsinki Status: Offline Points: 1358 |
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Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:45pm |
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Permission problems again after the update.
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adg211288
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Black Metal, Prog/AG Teams Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 22198 |
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Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:47pm |
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Web Wiz Weirdness strikes yet again.
 That's it, the contents links were a nice simple idea that should have worked (and would have done if we had phpBB) but they have to go.
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Pekka
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 26 Mar 2010 Location: Helsinki Status: Offline Points: 1358 |
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Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:49pm |
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I can't even get to the thread now.
The links weren't working for me at any point, but it was nice to have the chapters listed up there, so save them please.
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adg211288
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Black Metal, Prog/AG Teams Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 22198 |
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Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:52pm |
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I will restore a full list of the chapters to the OP with no links.
Try this link to get onto the guide (you should be able to access it from any public forum though). |
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Unitron
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: 30 Apr 2014 Location: Cypress Hill Status: Offline Points: 8051 |
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Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:53pm |
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Just wrote a bio for Porcupine Tree (The original bio was just Wikipedia)
This is going to take a while, I've noticed many bands on here have Wikipedia articles as bios. Even Iron Maiden has a Wikipedia bio!
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If I say fuck two more times that's forty-six fucks in this fucked up rhyme
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adg211288
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Black Metal, Prog/AG Teams Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 22198 |
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Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:57pm |
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I have just managed to rehome the original copy of the Handbook thread to a public forum which will hopefully put an end to permission errors.
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Unitron
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: 30 Apr 2014 Location: Cypress Hill Status: Offline Points: 8051 |
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Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:58pm |
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With this in place, should previously opinionated biographies be updated as well?
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If I say fuck two more times that's forty-six fucks in this fucked up rhyme
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Pekka
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: 26 Mar 2010 Location: Helsinki Status: Offline Points: 1358 |
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Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 4:58pm |
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Uh-oh! Thanks Adam, works now. Regarding bios, many times it's hard enough to scrape together anything, but then there are cases like Maiden where you could write a book about it if you liked. Any recommendations on length? Check for example the one for Rammstein, which inspired the "read more" option back when we started. Nobody is ever going to read that thing through. Edited by Pekka - 23 Sep 2014 at 4:59pm |
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adg211288
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Black Metal, Prog/AG Teams Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 22198 |
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Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 5:02pm |
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If the biographies aren't original then go ahead and rewrite as much as you like.
Edited by adg211288 - 23 Sep 2014 at 5:03pm |
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adg211288
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Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 5:11pm |
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That does look quite excessive. hmm...obviously the longer an artist is around and the more prolific they get the more there will be to write about them. I wouldn't want to impose any limitations on length but personally speaking (bearing in mind that most artists I've added in recent times are new-ish) I've stuck to one or two paragraph jobs (lacking major details though because that's where time will get really soaked up). For bands I like I've written more of course. I'll throw in a few examples here. Longer ones: http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/blind-guardian http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/anubis-gate http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/within-temptation Shorter ones: http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/mindmaze http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/neonfly http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/lucifers-heritage
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Pekka
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: 26 Mar 2010 Location: Helsinki Status: Offline Points: 1358 |
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Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 2:52pm |
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Concerning this part, there are things that overlap, like live EP's, live box sets and split DVD's, so should it be spelled out where to place them? I think in the past I've had to move them around. I hope the consensus is that in all these cases it's the latter marker that's the overriding type. Singles and EP's might be a tricky business as well, some bands might call a three song ten minute release an EP, some call a five song 25 minute release a single, and then there's some Metallica singles where the same five or six tracks might be called a single in the US and an EP in Japan. And then there is Reverend Bizarre's Harbinger of Metal, a 74 minute EP. I suppose we try to follow what the band has called the release, but if there's no mention at all, should there be some sort of track limit between singles and EP's? (This might be such a rare problem that it's no use even thinking about it, but it popped into my head.) And Maxi-singles vs. EP's? What about Official Bootlegs, by the way (like for example Dream Theater and Uriah Heep)? They're of course allowed, but should they be among the live albums or other releases?
Edited by Pekka - 24 Sep 2014 at 3:20pm |
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Bosh66
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Sludge, MC, HC, Post-Metal & Noise Rock Joined: 14 Feb 2013 Location: Bolton, Lancs Status: Offline Points: 25392 |
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Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 3:30pm |
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Good questions there Pekka. I'll let Adam opine, but here's my two penn'orth..
"I hope the consensus is that in all these cases it's the latter marker that's the overriding type." - that's where I put them. Agreed. On EP length, that's a minefield. A main song with two/three bonus live tracks or variants lasting 20 minutes is an extended single in my book. An 6 minute CD or 7" with three new, equally weighted tracks is an EP in my view. A 25 minute EP could equally be an album. I guess I take the lead from the artist if available. A 74 minute EP must be an album surely (or perhaps is a Very Extended Player (VEP))  Edited by Bosh66 - 24 Sep 2014 at 3:31pm |
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adg211288
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Black Metal, Prog/AG Teams Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 22198 |
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Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 4:29pm |
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We could probably make this clearer, yes.
Of course we should always check what an artist lists a release as. Failing that it cannot hurt to try other sites like wikipedia, EM, RYM etc to see what they list something as. There should be some clear cut rules laid down if all that fails though. Regarding Live EP's, split DVD's etc then yes, I agree that the latter marker is best used to tag them. That should be a rule even if an artist likes to group a live EP with a live album for example. As Chris says, lengths are indeed a minefield. Take Hirax's Hate, Fear and Power. It is considered a full-length. It's duration? 16 minutes. Then you have A Hero for the World's On Fire, which is considered as an EP, looks like a compilation and runs for 77 and a half minutes. This are the rules as I use them failing finding an artist's classification: Re-recorded -> full-length Covers -> full-length (unless they're not from the same recording sessions, then it's a comp) Promo single -> promos (though I kinda wish that section was on a drop down like the official singles) I'll have a look at what I can do on the guide regarding this tomorrow. Need to catch up on some sleep now.
Edited by adg211288 - 24 Sep 2014 at 4:30pm |
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Bosh66
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Sludge, MC, HC, Post-Metal & Noise Rock Joined: 14 Feb 2013 Location: Bolton, Lancs Status: Offline Points: 25392 |
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Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 4:31pm |
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Just another thought. Care should also be taken with promos. A promo is usually issued to give away say in in magazines, or to radio stations and record shops or as an album taster. Not metal, but Marrillion sells its promos for a nominal amount as a band sampler. Often what are called promos (2009 Promo or Promo 1999 for example) are in reality demo recordings. Not always apparent though.
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adg211288
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Black Metal, Prog/AG Teams Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 22198 |
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Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 1:28am |
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That's true about demo's but it's a lesser issue as those releases are put in the same place anyway.
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Bosh66
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Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 1:32am |
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Lol, yes that's right. It was late when I suggested that issue
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Pekka
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: 26 Mar 2010 Location: Helsinki Status: Offline Points: 1358 |
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Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 4:38am |
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One interesting thing I noticed is that Uriah Heep has apparently re-recorded their old songs twice, the official discography lists the first one (Remasters - Official Anthology) as a compilation and the second one (Celebration) as a full length album. So that's how I've put them.
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adg211288 wrote: