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Pantera ~ Racism in Metal |
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Wyvern_13 ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Oct 2015 Location: Nonsense Status: Offline Points: 29 |
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I dont think Phil Anselmo is actually a racist or that he believes in that White Power noise. I think, as someone already mentioned, that he's an idiot who gets perhaps a bit too drunk a bit too often as well as having already mostly ruined himself with drugs and alcohol. He says dumb shit without thinking about it and regrets it later (or regrets being called out on it, either way).
Is there racism in Metal? Definitely. But I dont think its very common. The only places where I've actually seen it are online, in the comment sections of various websites or on forums. Yea, there are some bands that have or used to have those beliefs but as long as they're just talking about it and not acting on it then I dont think there's much to do other then call em out and then be done with it. As for disclaimers, as long as you put in the info section things like "lyrical content: nazism" or "genre: pornogrind" then people should know what they're getting into when they listen to the band. A database should be just that. I mean, you dont call anyone working at the local libary a nazi because the library has books on the subject. |
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Þessi undirskrift kemur málinu bara alls ekkert við!
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Vim Fuego ![]() Forum Admin Group ![]() ![]() Death, T/S/G, Grind, VA Teams Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Canterbury, NZ Status: Offline Points: 6558 |
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I have listened to neo-nazi bands. I've done it for research purposes. I've never, ever spent any money on them though. I feel absolutely no shame whatsoever in downloading that sort of thing without paying for it, just to see what it sounds like. One listen is usually enough and then off to the garbage can on my desktop. For the record, most neo-nazi shit is absolutely dreadful. You can all guess how vile the lyrics are. Strangely though, the music is uniformly dreadful as well. Not a scrap of instrumental or songwriting skill shown. For a bit of perspective, I've also been checking out most of the grindcore bands on the site as I've been updating their profiles, just to make sure they are in the right category. I don't much like some of that either.
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Vim Fuego ![]() Forum Admin Group ![]() ![]() Death, T/S/G, Grind, VA Teams Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Canterbury, NZ Status: Offline Points: 6558 |
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Send me the link and I'll add 'em.
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Polymorphia ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Jan 2014 Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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It seems like we naturally single out views with disturbing historical resonances, because they are almost universally rejected, but if we assert a view is wrong, don't we assert it's harmful on some level? Some would assert that Satanism (or Christianity, or Islam, or Communism) is as harmful as the National Socialist Party, and may cite the crusades, terrorism, Battlefield Earth, etc. Not that we should reject bands with these views either. What I mean is, if I were placed in charge of this site and I rejected every band I believe had some sort of harmful belief or glorified violence, you'd have a slim selection. There's no clear place to draw a line, even if we assert that there's a spectrum. Nazi-ism is, of course, the most culturally offensive, not having any peaceful variant (that I know of), and there is a justified stigma around it, but that stigma sometimes leads to biases that have no place on a database. A disclaimer, if the site wishes to clarify its stance, is fine.
Now, the real question is, would that invite those of aforementioned belief system into the site, and would the community want that?
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siLLy puPPy ![]() MMA Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Prog/AG Team Joined: 06 Oct 2013 Location: SF, CA, USA Status: Offline Points: 2729 |
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In response to all this controversy, FUCK IT! This is metal. This is where everyone has the right to express their demented views no matter how twisted it is. Bring it on, bitches! Letting sick fucks express themselves is key to finding cures for the poisons. The universe has a bias for love over hate (science in action) so let all the hate spew forth in the metal world and we can either agree or disagree accordingly. I hardly agree with the lyrics of every album i like. I am however able to separate musical talent from psyochological development.
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siLLy puPPy ![]() MMA Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Prog/AG Team Joined: 06 Oct 2013 Location: SF, CA, USA Status: Offline Points: 2729 |
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I should've guessed this would be the perfect breeding ground for toaster fetishes! Actually, that toaster looks HOT! Nothing turns me on like burned bread LOL :)
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Triceratopsoil ![]() MMA Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: 17 Dec 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4197 |
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that's standard operating procedure for football hooligans
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UMUR ![]() MMA Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Errors & Omissions Team / Retired Admin Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 18139 |
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![]() Edited by UMUR - 02 Feb 2016 at 3:59pm |
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Unitron ![]() MMA Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: 30 Apr 2014 Location: Cypress Hill Status: Offline Points: 8051 |
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Toaster Fucker, the new hit Grindcore band on the scene.
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If I say fuck two more times that's forty-six fucks in this fucked up rhyme
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Time Signature ![]() MMA Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: 04 Apr 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 7690 |
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As far as I understand, it was just intended to be a joke. Needless to say, it was a very stupid joke... a very incredibly stupid joke.
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Bosh66 ![]() Forum Admin Group ![]() ![]() Sludge, MC, HC, Post-Metal & Noise Rock Joined: 14 Feb 2013 Location: Bolton, Lancs Status: Offline Points: 24736 |
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Okay, back on topic. Yes Anselmo's outbursts are a problem. It's not a disagreement over a favourite football team, beer, which women are fit or if a band is shit or not. This hurts people.
Perhaps the fact that people don't take this kind of stuff seriously is simply because there's too much of it around us? That's my twopenn'orth anyway. |
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Triceratopsoil ![]() MMA Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: 17 Dec 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4197 |
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But most of this thread is sounding like a discussion for the collab zone, we should probably get back to the OP's topic of whether antics like Anselmo's are a problem with the metal community.
I personally think they aren't, never seen anybody take that kind of stuff seriously - and if you are going to take issue at something metal musicians are doing, murdering their bandmates and burning down churches are a bigger problem (looking at you, Norwegian black metal) |
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Triceratopsoil ![]() MMA Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: 17 Dec 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4197 |
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Our inclusiveness is already something that sets us aside from other sites like e.g. encyclopedia metallum, but if that is our policy (it is) then it has to run both ways: including metal bands we don't like, not just including metal bands that they don't like/don't consider metal
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Unitron ![]() MMA Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: 30 Apr 2014 Location: Cypress Hill Status: Offline Points: 8051 |
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I would never listen to neo-nazi bands either, but when you have a database that is trying to be a complete metal resource, you have to take the bad with the good.
Edited by Unitron - 03 Feb 2016 at 12:17am |
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If I say fuck two more times that's forty-six fucks in this fucked up rhyme
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Bosh66 ![]() Forum Admin Group ![]() ![]() Sludge, MC, HC, Post-Metal & Noise Rock Joined: 14 Feb 2013 Location: Bolton, Lancs Status: Offline Points: 24736 |
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I wouldn't listen to them either, LittleBig.
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LittleBig ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Banned Joined: 17 Jul 2010 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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I understand that there are people who don't care about lyrical content (which I find strange, but anyway), but I just think that including bands with neo-nazi lyricism and violence related topics does not seem like a good idea to me, I don't know what to say, I would never listen to such a thing, no matter how competent the musicians are on their instruments. Occult themes, i don't mind, anti-religious lyrics, the same (as long as they're not encouraging hate against people). |
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Bosh66 ![]() Forum Admin Group ![]() ![]() Sludge, MC, HC, Post-Metal & Noise Rock Joined: 14 Feb 2013 Location: Bolton, Lancs Status: Offline Points: 24736 |
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Little Big, understand your position but we do already have a very large number of bands covering unsavoury topics. We'd end up removing some of the bigger bands as well as more obscure ones if we were to take that approach. And while it would be nice to think (and I do think) that everyone here finds rape, torture and racial superiority politics objectionable, at what place to you set the barrier? I like dark occultist music but don't listen to explicitly satanic bands. Others would feel I'm missing out on some good music and stories. Is a song about a rape or lynching the same as one that glorifies it? Does the fact that EM / SOM / HME and other sites list a band not place us out of kilter if we don't?
My view is that we list everything , but call out in a matter of fact those that may cause offence. Honor is a Polish RAC / neo-nazi band. Cock And ball Torture is a porno-grind band from Germany. Readers will know then what the're viewing. A site-wide disclaimer will outline MMAs position. And should someone want to review a nazi band, it would obviously have to be done objectively on the music else the Admins will pull it for being offensive. I don't think though that we get many reviews of far right nationalist bands. Most listeners will be reviewing on more niche sites I assume. That said, I'd welcome reviews of Moshpit so long as it was objective and focussed on the music. |
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LittleBig ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Banned Joined: 17 Jul 2010 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Data base or not, we should not add every single band we've heard of, especially with lyrical content promoting violence, rape, murder & related. As for Anselmo's gesture, it's something that cannot go ignored, something to condemn. His early excuse that he was kidding as he was drunk is pathetic. It was a joke?! |
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UMUR ![]() MMA Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Errors & Omissions Team / Retired Admin Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 18139 |
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Polymorphia ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Jan 2014 Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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