Keyboards in Metal. How can this be?
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URL: http://www.MetalMusicArchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=386
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Topic: Keyboards in Metal. How can this be?
Posted By: jampa17
Subject: Keyboards in Metal. How can this be?
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2010 at 4:02pm
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Well, I was very disapointed when I was a teen because there was no rock music with keyboards in the late 90's. I wonder if the instrument was not heavy enough or if the instrument was not good enough. Luckly, I found bands like Dream Theater, Angra, Stratovarious and another that really succed in that. Now we have a lot of this kind of metal in sub genres like Symphonic Metal, Prog Metal and Power Metal, but some purist still denied the keyboards as an important part of metal. What do you think about it?
We can denied the importance of John Lord in metal? please, share your thoughts about it...
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Replies:
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2010 at 4:17pm
| well... as much as I love keyboards... it is like crying about lack of guitar in electronic music. Metal is all about guitar. Keyboards can be a creative flavor to metal... as say the guitar was in Tangerine Dream but I definitely can relate to those who deny the importance of the keyboards in metal.. because.. well.. they are not important to it. Only as important to as a flavor to 'good' 'creative' metal as good musicianship and attention to songwriting and melody are to good music. Not important.. but it sure helps to make good interesting music haha. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2010 at 4:24pm
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Keyboards are not essential to metal, but they can really add a lot of atmosphere and creativity to otherwise lackluster titles. I always love when I hear a death metal release that incorporates atmospheric and haunting keyboards into their sound. It can really add a nice touch, if done correctly of course. I'm sure people will disagree with me, but people always disagree with me haha... Guitar, Bass, and Drums are the only really "essential" instruments of metal, but keyboards are just as important to certain subgenres of metal. It all boils down to personal taste. -Jeff ------------- Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2010 at 4:28pm
Bass is not essential. Just listen to the classic ...and Justice for All. 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2010 at 4:36pm
  bass is another one that is not exactly important.. unless you consider doubling the guitar riff to make it heavier important (all back to the importance of the guitar) all like keyboards... a melodic (and audible ) bass can only metal better.. but far from important. There is a reason the greatest bass players generally come from R&B, jazz, and prog... and not metal. |
Negoba wrote:Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2010 at 4:57pm
| As much as I love Jon Lord (I've been posting my PA Deep Purple reviews in the past hour or so), his keyboards work so well because they find a perfect foil in the guitar played by a certain Mr Ritchie Blackmore. It is the combination of both those instruments that makes DP's sound as exciting as it is, IMHO. Micky said it well... Metal is, and always will be, guitar-based. Keyboards can add some extra spice, but they will never be the main ingredient. |
Posted By: Harry
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2010 at 9:18pm
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Keyboards definitely aren't essential in metal, never have been. In fact I hate the way most power metal bands use keyboards. Keyboard solo after keyboard solo, arghh. It just gets on my nerves. ------------- 
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Posted By: Harry
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2010 at 9:23pm
Well yeah, any metalhead that knows anything about metal should know that doubling the guitar IS important. There is never a point where the bass guitar isn't important in metal. If you've ever heard a mix with a bass guitar side by side with one without a bass guitar, you definitely don't take bass guitar for granted after that. A lot of people say "I Can't hear the bass guitar" which to me is silly. It only seems that way because a good mix engineer knows how to blend the bass guitar and guitar tracks together well so they sound seamless. Without a bass guitar, the only thing holding down the low end of a mix is a kick drum, which isn't sufficient enough to do it by itself. It's not and never has been about making it "heavier". It's just about ensuring you have a full sounding mix that covers a good range of the frequency spectrum rather than having a huge hole in the sub bass and mid bass. -------------
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2010 at 10:22pm
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Others have said that keyboards are not essential to metal, and I would agree with that, but I would take it farther and say that for certain types of metal, keyboards downright detract from the experience. For example, my favorite subgenre is sludge. I can't imagine a band like Crowbar being made better by keyboards. It misses the whole point. That being said, certain other subgenres benefit hugely from keyboards. Dio uses keyboards to great effect. So my overall point is "it depends."
------------- Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves. |
Posted By: coorpz
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2010 at 11:53pm
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Like that guy said, it's all a matter of your taste. I am sure bands wouldn't give up doing what they like doing, incorporating the instruments they like to use and play just to please you. I might be coming off like a dick here, but assuredly it's not my intent. Simply, if you don't like what they are doing a) either its not your type of music or b) just don't listen to that band. Who's definition of 'metal' are you going by? Yours? Theirs? It's different for everyone. Else, we would have x50000 Iron Maiden replicas walking about. There is no point to being one dimensional, sometimes I find that bands are so much better when they let themselves speak what they define as much, but sadly a lot of them like to play 'traditionally' and use only the basic stuff. Not saying it's bad, in fact it's fine, just don't expect me to hold a band in as high of regard as the OG's of that stuff. The previous poster mentioned his favorite subgenre is sludge, which at it's bare bones as a whole I find entirely, cripplingly, painfully unlistenable. It's not that I find it "bad", it's just that ALL THOSE BANDS SOUND THE SAME. I do/did like certain records, but don't expect me to go ape-sh*t over it. With a little talent and originality you'd be surprised how cohesive it sounds. I'm just talking from experience, but if people like to live in a boxed metal world, let them, who am I to say? In short - Keys are not "essential" by many a definition, although they just add some zest to the mix. Just my thoughts on this subject, not that anyone actually cares. |
Posted By: Stephen
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2010 at 1:04am
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Keyboard added a depth and beauty to the music but of course can't be done in thrash or death, probably worked out magically fine in glam, power, and progressive metal. Not a very essential instrument to me, but don't have any problem at all with it |
Posted By: DeathOfSeasons
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2010 at 1:57am
Ever heard of Sadist or Nocturnus?
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Posted By: DeathOfSeasons
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2010 at 2:01am
| I really wish that keyboards were used more often in Metal sub-genres outside of Progressive Metal and Symphonic Metal. I find that keyboards sound great when used with Technical Death Metal (Nocturnus for example) and it adds a really good atmosphere to everything. But unfortunately keyboards aren't essential to most Metal bands and they don't get used as often as they should. |
Posted By: Beekeeper
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2010 at 3:52am
See the problem with metal bands that use keyboards is that 99% of them are inconceivably cheesy and awful such as all the bands you listed. |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2010 at 8:09pm
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Not even guitar is essential in metal: Apocalyptica ------------- Lost respect for these archives when I saw Creed added, among other bands. Not going to be foruming here anymore. You can keep my reviews if you want. |
Posted By: MAVIIIVAM
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2010 at 8:12pm
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Ugh . . . There was that series on VH1-2 where Comedians and Metal Band members would comment on Heavy Metal, and some Comedian, whom I never heard of, would say "KEYBOARDS! Keyboards isnt Metal!". Well of course he thought that, because they're playing the song from Europe . . . (Oh God, do I really need to say the "song" ?  ).I never knew Metal had to have Rules . . . Yeah I know many Metalheads don't want Keys in their music, well, that means you really dont have to listen to it (or maybe, you didn't notice them ).Deep Purple, Rainbow, Uriah Heep, ELP (ELP were considered "Hard Rock" by some long ago, I'm sure by ignorance of not knowing what Prog Rock was) and the like, have Keyboards as "essential parts" of the Band, not only to add textures, but as a Lead instrument. Like Dream Theater, they basicaly brought on a wave of Prog Metal Bands (other than "Powermetal") that still used the crunching, riffy chugging Guitars, but had Keyboardists as a Lead and Textural Instrument as just another part of the Band, not as just something in the backround (Like Post-Ozzy Black Sabbath). There are TONS of International Prog Metal Bands that use Keyboards as a Lead Instruments with Guitarists and they can sound VERY Heavy and Technical too, with various Vocal styles as well . . . Especially with The new wave of Dark-Wave/Prog Metal (TNWODWPM?) like, Forever After, Epica, Leaves Eyes, Within Temptation and many more. And then you have the Extremes like Emperor, Dimmu Borgir, Samael and other Blackmetal Bands that use them as Textures, but you can hear them. I think Nocturnus was considered the 1st Band to use Synth/Keyboards in Death Metal. Soilwork and Opeth use them, but Opeth have been using "Per Wiberg" of late as a Soloist, getting back to those 70's influences (like Jon Lord and Ken Hensley). Fates Warning always recruited Dream Theater's Kevin Moore to add some textures and little solos in their later albums ("No Exit" on). And Kevin Moore (and Portnoy for the 1st 2) has his "Radiohead meets Dream Theater" Band "OSI". Many other Bands use various "unusual Instruments" to an enhance ideas. Believer, Atrocity and Rosicrusion, 3 Tech/Death Metal Bands used Male and Female Opera Singers to enhance a song, just to add something that had never been done before, they were ahead of their time. Martin Walkyier (Co-founder of Sabbat (u.k.) who formed Skyclad has a Fiddle Player and they set the course for Folk Metal. Ihshan, the Blackmetalist from Emperor on his latest Solo Album, there is a song where you hear this chugging riff in the backround as Ihshan plays his Guitar on top of it, I then realized that "riff" is a freakin' Saxaphone as the player does a Sax Solo! The Post-Prog Metal Band Sculptured uses Trumbones and Trumpets AND Keyboards. The Ocean is also another Band that breaks the mold of Metal with all its influences and all sorts of sounds. And Apocalyptica are all strings! Mark Wood of Wood plays a Lead Doubleneck Violin with a Tremelo Bar, his Band has no Guitarist. We live in a time of Metal that is influenced by "decades" of various music. How can anyone percieve of it not grabbing parts of different musics to enhance an idea? Heres the thing about the pre-concieved notions of "Metal", it is regulated to that mind-set, and soo damn irratating that people cant get out of that "Box". But if you don't like it, you don't like it .The more Bands push the envelope, the better I like it. Go here and see how many Prog Metal Bands use Keyboards, its NOT a "minority" anymore  :http://www.progulus.com/rprweb/playing.php - http://www.progulus.com/rprweb/playing.php Guitar, Bass and Drums I totaly agree are the foundations of Heavy Metal, but Keyboards can be an essential part of Metal depending what your vision is when concieving a Band, or just an "Idea" to be purely creative. I believe in no rules for Metal . . . period.  Bang On all  ------------- "If you're happy to be an Ant in the Sand Box, you're welcome to it!" -Forbidden For Progressive Metal and Prog Rock, come visit, request songs and explore at PrOgulus.com |
Posted By: PROGMAN
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2010 at 1:07am
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depends on the band. but I like metal with or without keyboards. |
Posted By: Stephen
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2010 at 2:09am
never heard of them buddy, but that's only my opinion i guess probably the keyboard was used at the intro or outro because when it's used in the midst of a song, isn't the key sound will drown and vanished with a dominant distorted guitar and pounding drums esp for death ? |
Posted By: Harry
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2010 at 2:13am
As long as the guitars are only double tracked, the keyboards should fit in the mix. -------------
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Posted By: DeathOfSeasons
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2010 at 2:30am
The keys are actually used for the majority of the song, and never really even come close to being drowned out. On the album Crust by Sadist for example the keys/electronic effects are just as important, if not more important than the guitars.
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Posted By: MAVIIIVAM
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2010 at 3:39am
Ha! Just because you never heard of them, it doesnt mean they didnt exist I gave you alot of "research" to look into from my little essay on page 1 I gave just a TINY list of Metal Bands with full time Keyboardists. The thing about Nocturus was, they were WAY ahead of their time and maybe the 1st Death Metal Band with a full time Keyboardist, they might be even older than you and your assumption (I just assume folks are younger than me  ).Its not that we want to make you like anything, we just want you to open up to possibilites. . . . even if you dont like it in the end, which is okay to. But I think the point of "Are Keyboards essential to Metal" -well if they have a full time Keyboardist at the start, its a essential for that Band, yes? Keyboards are not essential for every Metal Band (as many have said here), but an extra tool if they need it .In 1992: 1990: "Suspyre" Prog/Math Metal: "Emperor" Prog/Black Metal: There are soo many facets to Metal, you just can't limit it. Just explore, take a look around, see what you like  ------------- "If you're happy to be an Ant in the Sand Box, you're welcome to it!" -Forbidden For Progressive Metal and Prog Rock, come visit, request songs and explore at PrOgulus.com |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2010 at 10:15am
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As a keys player myself, I can say they're not important in any metal I've heard. There's a time a place for keyboards in any type of music. Sometimes it adds another coat to it, sometimes it sounds horrific. The most important music in metal for me is drums. Think about it. Every band except Sunn0))) and Earth and other funeral doom bands (or drone doom, could never decipher the terminology), utilises drums and get's their energy from drums. I mean, look at pig Destroyer and Suffocation. Can you imagine them without the same level of drumming? It would be DULL! |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2010 at 4:16am
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Sabbath used keys on "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath", and Priest used keys on "Rocka Rolla". Both bands used keys on subsequent albums. These two bands defined metal, ergo, metal has keys.
Logic, see?
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Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2010 at 6:38am
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If we don't count early metal/hard rock ,and pop-oriented glam metal of 80's, there were not much keyboards in metal...I know of lot of metalheads frowning upon keyboards in modern metal. Let's just say keyboards in metal happened...somewhere in time... |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2010 at 8:11am
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^That's true, but I couldn't pass up this opportunity to post this video by Hell;
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