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A Statement on Recent Events

Printed From: MetalMusicArchives.com
Category: Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements
Forum Name: Internal news
Forum Description: Stay informed about the latest updates regarding the site
URL: http://www.MetalMusicArchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16547
Printed Date: 03 Feb 2023 at 7:43pm
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Topic: A Statement on Recent Events
Posted By: Bosh66
Subject: A Statement on Recent Events
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2021 at 12:14am
MMA has recently been called out by a member for transphobic comments made on this site. MMA is a site that welcomes all metal fans irrespective of sex or gender identity, sexual orientation, nationality or ethnicity and we take this allegation very seriously. Steps have been taken to address the issue and an apology issued to the member concerned. We fell short of the standard we expect of others in this case, but we promise to do better. 

We want to make it clear that MMA welcomes open debate and supports free speech, including on topics that may divide opinion or be considered controversial, but those freedoms should not be expressed at the expense of others. If members are made to feel like their identity is being invalidated or otherwise feel uncomfortable, it may constitute hate speech regardless of the intention behind the comments. MMA has no choice but to remove such comments, while the poster could face sanctions, up to and including being banned from the site. Thank you for your understanding.



Replies:
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 4:06am
Just out of curiosity, where was MMA called out and where was the transphobic statement made?


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Posted By: Vim Fuego
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 4:33am
It was in the comments section of a review, and a line in the review was seen to be transphobic by someone who is transgender.


Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 4:47am
Ah, I see. Has the review been deleted?

[Edit: I seem to have found it]


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Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 5:10am
Just came across this review: https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.metalmusicarchives.com

Could that be related to the incident?

[Edit: Having looked at the discussion, I think it is]


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Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 5:23am
That's definitely from the same person. It's sad that they felt the need to write that, since that's clearly about the original issue which was resolved and not the subsequent escalation. But that may be why they didn't take it down again. This review is unfortunate but I don't believe it will be too damaging as I can't believe that too many people will look us up on trustpilot.

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Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 5:33am
I did manage to find it though. But, of course, I did do a very specific google search.


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Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 5:38am
I would respond to it if I could, but only Max as the site owner can do that.

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Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 5:47am
I wouldn't even know how to respond to it.


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Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 5:54am
I would pretty much just rephrase the first post in this thread.

Bottom line here is that the issue was quickly addressed and the member apologised to (which was accepted for the review part of the incident at least).

We could PM the member here, asking them to take it down, of course, but it may be better to let sleeping dogs lie.

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Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 5:56am
Yeah, if the situation has been resolved, then I guess it's best to just let it be.


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Posted By: Bosh66
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 6:42am
Disappointing though. The site is hardly a hot-bed of bigotary, thankfully. It was on reflection a careless remark made that no-one picked up on (even the author), probably because we don't share the experiences of a transgender person. I know it's only one comment but this is what we didn't want to happen.


Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 6:56am
If you look at the dates, the trustpilot review is slightly older than the initial challenge on the review (posted June 26th, 22 days ago from today. Their first comment is only 20 days old on the review). This was clearly written before we were given a chance to address the issue.

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Posted By: Bosh66
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 6:59am
Good spot. There's likely to be only us on this site who care about what's true an factual though, unfortunately. That said, who uses TrustPilot before browsing a metal site anyway? As you suggested, the damage should be negligible.


Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 7:04am
It's certainly an unusual pick to call us out on, which is to our advantage. Trustpilot is more for people providing a paid service.

Of course I wouldn't say no to other members writing us some better reviews to balance this one out.

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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 7:34am
Personally I think it´s hopeless what people are offended by these days, and I think writing a negative review on trustpilot because of this is an overreaction of large proportion. But I guess people have different degrees and understanding of tolerance. Now that may be perceived as crude and intolerant by some, but tolerance goes both ways in my world. I accept that people are different from the norm, and I would never bother them or write anything bad about them, but on the other hand I´m not gonna make any changes to the way that I live to not insult someone else.

I´m for example still opposed to Danish kindergardens not serving pig anymore, because a minority of the children are muslims...just as an example (it´s not a rant against muslims, but an example of something I find offensive as part of a majority group). If that minority wants something else, they can bring their own food, and let the 95% of the other children in the kindergarden eat our extremely delicious Danish bacon and pig meatballs. There is a thing as going too far in not wanting to insult minorities and to cater for their every special need...just saying.




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Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 11:26am
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

Personally I think it´s hopeless what people are offended by these days, and I think writing a negative review on trustpilot because of this is an overreaction of large proportion. But I guess people have different degrees and understanding of tolerance. Now that may be perceived as crude and intolerant by some, but tolerance goes both ways in my world. I accept that people are different from the norm, and I would never bother them or write anything bad about them, but on the other hand I´m not gonna make any changes to the way that I live to not insult someone else.

In this case there was a genuine issue that needed addressing, but I agree with the sentiment here 100%. You don't end intolerance by being intolerant. It's definitely a gripe of mine that it seems to be socially acceptable to offend the majority. 


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Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 12:32pm
Having  read the review and the exchange, I don't think the line construed as transphobic was intended as such, but I immediatedly spotted the line in question (I read the review before the exchange). Gender identity is such a thorny issue, and it seems that one of the problems is who even has the right to have opinions on the matter. The reviewer made some legit points, I think, about gender identity seen from one perspective, but those points inadvertently offended someone with a completely different perspective and life experience. Now, I have absolutely no idea what it's like to be the victim of transphobia, but I think there might be a difference between writing a line like the one in the review and being an outright asshole who insists on using misgendering probouns and deadnames and shit like that. But, of course, I don't know what it's like.

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Posted By: Peacock Feather
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 1:37pm
Leftists as usual. Sometimes I think some people must be forbidden from Internet connection cause they will always make a mountain out of a molehill. Plus there were no proofs on that Trustpilot review.


Posted By: Psydye
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 1:58pm
I haven't read the review, can anyone link me to it?


Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 3:34pm
^ It's been modified so the controversial element has been removed. The album was Poppy - I Disagree.


Posted By: Psydye
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 3:43pm
^Ah, okay!


Posted By: Psydye
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 3:57pm
Saw the comments section of the review and 'WOOOW' is all I have to say. In the comments I managed to find the line which the trans-person apparently found offensive...overreaction much?


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 8:44pm
Personally i thought you all handled things quite well once it was brought to your attention. I apologize if i added fuel to the fire by trying to have a rational conversation about it but i find many want to play the phobia card every time someone doesn't agree with them.

By the way PHOBIA means FEAR. Nobody here seems fearful of trans people. Insensitivity can come out inadvertently and apologies have been made. So WTF?


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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2021 at 1:49am
Exactly...I´ve met almost nothing but very tolerant people on this site, so that trustpilot review bothers me quite a bit. It´s an unfair review...


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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2021 at 10:01am
I'm sure that everybody who visits this site goes to Trust Pilot to find out if this site is legit LOL

OMG, fucking drama queens who have nothing better to do than get offended by EVERYTHING.

Never mind that some metal bands promote nazi idealism.

Let's face it metal has some fucked up shit within its realms.

This is one of those classic cases of IT'S ALL ABOUT ME!

Narcissism of the 1st degree.

Apparently apologies aren't enough for this person so why even bother continuing this conversation?



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Posted By: 666sharon666
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2021 at 10:36am
Thanks Mike for once again proving that MMA cannot have this discussion in a mature, respectful and inclusive manner. 

I'm not happy about the Trustpilot review either, in fact I have reason to be upset about it most of all, since it's talking about my review and levelling accusations at me. But as has been pointed out it was posted before this person decided to challenge my review directly. I like to think that if the situation hadn't been subsequently escalated it might have even been taken down after the original issue was quickly, and simply, resolved. 

Unfortunately, you then went off on a tirade where you not only were disrespectful to the member with a transgender identity, but came across like a conspiracy theorist regarding the issue. You also made the comparison to the science the member had provided to that, and I quote, 'justified holocausts and other racial superiority nonsense'. 

And you know who those terms invoke don't you?

That's right, Adolf Hitler. The member certainly took it that way. 

Everyone else should think about that before they think ill of the member who brought the original issue to our attention. 

This is the sort of attitude that should not be on MMA. Or anywhere else.

SJT actually accepted my apology for the review line that offended them. I believe that if I asked they would take the Trustpilot review down. However because of you I don't dare ask, because that may just prompt them to write an even more damning piece. Perhaps even somewhere it might be more visible. 

I fully understand why they'd be upset and incredibly pissed off. 

Think about that, everyone. However, this thread is now closed. It was my hope that we might be able to have this discussion, but apparently we cannot. 



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