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Paradise Lost

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URL: http://www.MetalMusicArchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12717
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Topic: Paradise Lost
Posted By: adg211288
Subject: Paradise Lost
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 6:10am
A band I've been really enjoying lately. Paradise Lost are an early entry in the canon of both death-doom metal and gothic metal. They played the former on their first three albums and have made a surprise return to it on their recent material, but are best known for their gothic metal work, especially the albums Icon and Draconian Times. 

Typically I prefer doom metal over gothic metal, but I like both sounds from this band. I've had the albums One Second and In Requiem for a while, but it was only with Medusa that I became a major fan of their work. Their albums tend to be affordable, so I've managed to pick up the bulk of their discography already.

I've heard so far:

Lost Paradise
Gothic
Icon
Draconian Times
One Second
In Requiem
The Plague Within
Medusa

And I have on CD still to listen to:

Shades of God
Paradise Lost
Faith Divides Us - Death Unites Us

+ Tragic Idol still in the post somewhere. 

So far I would point to probably Medusa as my favourite but that may be because it's basically the album that really made me a fan of them, so could change as I get to know the back catalogue some more. I also regard Draconian Times and In Requiem highly out of the gothic metal material. 

Vote for your favourite album on the poll and share some love for the band in the comments. 


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Replies:
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 10:38am
I´m really into Medusa too at the moment, and it is indeed a great album. I was a huge fan of Paradise Lost in the early days, and if I have to pick a favorite it would be between Gothic and Shades of God. I´m not 100% sure, but I´m actually leaning towards Shades of God. Both are pretty Unique sounding releases though.

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Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 10:46am
Having got both Gothic and Shades of God just today I do have to say I prefer the latter, at least on first impressions. Gothic may grow on me but I found Shades of God to be a much more varied release. 

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Posted By: TheHeavyMetalCat
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 10:58am
I don't know much about this band. What would be a good introductory album?


Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 11:36am
Well I'm still new to the band myself but I'd say Medusa or Shades of God would be a good ones to offer a 'best of both worlds' sound. If you'd prefer them more heavily in death-doom territory then I'd say Gothic. Or for gothic metal, Draconian Times or In Requiem, which was one of the first I had from them earlier this year. It's only grown on me since getting more into the band. I find it a very heavy gothic metal album. 

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Posted By: Unitron
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 11:38am
I've heard of them for a long time, but never gotten around to listening to them. I should fix that.

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Posted By: Vim Fuego
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 11:58am
It used to be Shades of God, Icon or Draconian Times, but I'm a total Gothic convert now. Haven't really kept up since One second, because that was getting too far away from what I liked.


Posted By: Vim Fuego
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by TheHeavyMetalCat TheHeavyMetalCat wrote:

I don't know much about this band. What would be a good introductory album?

Anything from Gothic to Draconian Times would be a good start. Lost Paradise has more death metal elements than the other albums, and after Draconian Times they went a bit... mainstream?


Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Vim Fuego Vim Fuego wrote:

after Draconian Times they went a bit... mainstream?

They did, but eventually came back from it, especially on the most recent two where Nick switched back to growling as his main style. 


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Posted By: Unitron
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 12:18pm
Listened to the debut, and I loved it. Is Gothic of similar style?

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Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 12:19pm
It's the closest, but you so start getting a few gothic metal elements even that early. 

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Posted By: TheHeavyMetalCat
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 12:21pm
I'll give Draconian Times a go first.


Posted By: TheHeavyMetalCat
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 1:10pm
I enjoyed Draconian Times but it didn't blow me away. Moving onto Medusa.

Sounds like a completely different band already.


Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 1:21pm
You'll hear bits in Medusa that are closer to their more pure gothic material, but overall it's back to death-doom. Actually, I find it a more pure death-doom metal affair than Shades of God. 

The more I listen to Medusa the more I think that the single Blood and Chaos is even a bit melodeath. 




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Posted By: TheHeavyMetalCat
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 2:15pm
Medusa was really good. I'll give a few more albums a shot tomorrow.


Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 2:44pm
First Paradise Lost album I ever bought was Draconian Times on the basis of a review I read at the time of release. When One Second came out I bought it straight away and was expecting more of the same but surprised at the change of sound which was more clinical with synths. Being more difficult to check albums out back then I wasn't aware of their earlier death doom sound until much later and after One Second I didn't check anything out for quite a while. Time has made me appreciate it more though I still don't love it.

Difficult to say my favourite as I can't even remember what some of those albums sound like as well as a few I've never heard even once. At the moment The Plague Within would probably be my choice. Can't think of any other albums of theirs I've enjoyed so much but I've been revisiting a few and trying some new (to me) ones. So far nothing beats it.




Posted By: TheHeavyMetalCat
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2017 at 8:55am
Listened to Gothic, Shades of God and The Plague Within today. Going to try the debut next.

Loved the latter two, but to my surprise I found Gothic itself to be quite underwhelming.

Collab question but if The Plague Within is doom enough to be in Doom Metal here over Gothic Metal, should it not be Death-Doom Metal like Medusa?


Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2017 at 9:02am
Originally posted by TheHeavyMetalCat TheHeavyMetalCat wrote:

Collab question but if The Plague Within is doom enough to be in Doom Metal here over Gothic Metal, should it not be Death-Doom Metal like Medusa?

I think on that logic then the answer would be yes but based on the one listen I've given that album I'm not sure it still isn't a bit more on the gothic metal side. I heard a major difference in the guitar style compared to Medusa. 


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Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2017 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Originally posted by TheHeavyMetalCat TheHeavyMetalCat wrote:

Collab question but if The Plague Within is doom enough to be in Doom Metal here over Gothic Metal, should it not be Death-Doom Metal like Medusa?

I think on that logic then the answer would be yes but based on the one listen I've given that album I'm not sure it still isn't a bit more on the gothic metal side. I heard a major difference in the guitar style compared to Medusa. 

Sound-wise I see it as bridge between the gothic stuff and Medusa. The sound of The Plague Within doesn't suggest death doom to me.


Posted By: Vim Fuego
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2017 at 4:43pm
So why is no one voting in the poll? Is it too hard to pick the best?


Posted By: voila_la_scorie
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2017 at 7:24pm
I only just picked up a couple of Paradise Lost albums during the summer. "Gothic" was my first choice because that seemed to be the one to get along with "Icon" but the latter didn't impress me as much for some reason. Then "Shades of God" was cheaper so I bought that and I was listening to it the other day and thinking it was really a terrific album. I managed to snag "Gothic" as well and I also have a high opinion of that one too (reviews of both to come). The rest I don't know; however, I have in mind to pick up at least one or two other albums. The band have a sound that is both inspired by Black Sabbath and fresh sounding. That I get from the two albums I have.

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Posted By: voila_la_scorie
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2017 at 7:25pm
From what I heard, the debut sounds good too.

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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2017 at 11:39pm
^The debut is great too. Raw and unpolished doom/death metal. Nick Holmes vocals are killer on that album. One of the best growlers of his time.

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Posted By: LittleBig
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2017 at 12:25am
Icon is my favorite.




Posted By: TheHeavyMetalCat
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2017 at 12:56am
Originally posted by Nightfly Nightfly wrote:

Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Originally posted by TheHeavyMetalCat TheHeavyMetalCat wrote:

Collab question but if The Plague Within is doom enough to be in Doom Metal here over Gothic Metal, should it not be Death-Doom Metal like Medusa?

I think on that logic then the answer would be yes but based on the one listen I've given that album I'm not sure it still isn't a bit more on the gothic metal side. I heard a major difference in the guitar style compared to Medusa. 

Sound-wise I see it as bridge between the gothic stuff and Medusa. The sound of The Plague Within doesn't suggest death doom to me.


Then maybe Gothic Metal would be the better tag?


Posted By: TheHeavyMetalCat
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2017 at 12:58am
Originally posted by Vim Fuego Vim Fuego wrote:

So why is no one voting in the poll? Is it too hard to pick the best?


They have 15 albums. It's going to take those of us who don't know them well a bit of time to explore all their work and become familiar enough with it to vote.


Posted By: Bosh66
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2017 at 12:01am
Been catching up on a few of these. Gone with Shades of God as I suspected I would.


Posted By: 666sharon666
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2017 at 7:01am
It's been years since I listened to anything by them. I'll have to revisit the ones I have and catch up on a few I've missed.


Posted By: Unitron
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2017 at 12:35pm
I've listened to their first five as well as Medusa, and I enjoyed all of them. Right now, I'd say my favorites are tied between Lost Paradise and Shades of God.

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Posted By: TheHeavyMetalCat
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2017 at 12:50pm
Checked out a few more:

Lost Paradise
Icon
One Second
In Requiem
Faith Divides Us - Death Unites Us

I definitely like their doom albums more in general, but was impressed by In Requiem. Wasn't so keen on One Second though.


Posted By: TheHeavyMetalCat
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2017 at 12:55pm
One has to wonder what RYM is playing at with the Medusa tags though, with the three way primary of Doom Metal, Gothic Metal and Death Doom Metal. Surely this one is no less Death-Doom than at least Gothic and Shades of God?


Posted By: 666sharon666
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2017 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by TheHeavyMetalCat TheHeavyMetalCat wrote:

One has to wonder what RYM is playing at with the Medusa tags though, with the three way primary of Doom Metal, Gothic Metal and Death Doom Metal. Surely this one is no less Death-Doom than at least Gothic and Shades of God?


Haven't heard it yet but it's probably one of those cases where people are listening to it once without paying much attention then voting for whatever is green at the time or what the previous albums sound like/are tagged as.

It's usually better to read the comments on genre contested albums like this. They provide a lot better insight about what it actually sounds like. In this case we have just one person defending the voting down for death doom, with a factually incorrect argument, that being that death-doom is a sub-genre of death metal rather than doom metal. Which is especially important on RYM since the death doom tag only has doom metal as its parent and not both doom and death metal.


Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2017 at 1:18pm
To be honest I think Medusa sounds more 'death' overall than Shades of God does. There are gothic metal elements (secondary in RYM terms at best to my ears) but I can't see how that's swaying anyone since Shades of God has those too, as does Gothic. Production wise it's more modern sounding and polished, but that isn't a reason to preclude it. 

It may have something to do with the fact that The Plague Within was growl heavy too, and that album gained little traction for death-doom primary so the early voters probably assumed this one to be more of the same. Which is wrong, but most RYM'ers do seem to leave their votes after just one listen. Fortunately the tag has gained support since then. The page will probably never be right now, but at least the true primary is there. 


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Posted By: 666sharon666
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2017 at 1:21pm
Listening to Medusa now. Fearless Sky is a great start to it.


Posted By: TheHeavyMetalCat
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2017 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

It may have something to do with the fact that The Plague Within was growl heavy too, and that album gained little traction for death-doom primary so the early voters probably assumed this one to be more of the same. Which is wrong, but most RYM'ers do seem to leave their votes after just one listen. Fortunately the tag has gained support since then. The page will probably never be right now, but at least the true primary is there. 


I suppose that makes a warped kind of sense.


Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2017 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by TheHeavyMetalCat TheHeavyMetalCat wrote:

Originally posted by Nightfly Nightfly wrote:

Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Originally posted by TheHeavyMetalCat TheHeavyMetalCat wrote:

Collab question but if The Plague Within is doom enough to be in Doom Metal here over Gothic Metal, should it not be Death-Doom Metal like Medusa?

I think on that logic then the answer would be yes but based on the one listen I've given that album I'm not sure it still isn't a bit more on the gothic metal side. I heard a major difference in the guitar style compared to Medusa. 

Sound-wise I see it as bridge between the gothic stuff and Medusa. The sound of The Plague Within doesn't suggest death doom to me.


Then maybe Gothic Metal would be the better tag?

I think depending on which songs you're listening too you could put forward a  valid arguments for gothic, doom and death doom but i think there's too much of the latter two to class it as a gothic album. I think it's current tag of doom covers it okay but death doom wouldn't be off the mark either though I think Medusa is where they fully embrace it.


Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2017 at 2:53pm
On reflection I think the last couple are as good as anything they've done. I've lived with The Plague Within a lot more than Medusa and still enjoy it so I'll vote for that.


Posted By: Bosh66
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2017 at 3:14pm
Playing The Plague Within at the moment. It's a very decent release.


Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2017 at 11:37am
Giving The Plague Within a second listen right now. I expected to have my copy of Tragic Idol by now, but it's looking increasingly like the ebay seller isn't going to send it since it's been nearly a week with no dispatch. I can see an item not received case coming at this rate.

So anyway, still got that one to check out along with Host, Believe in Nothing and Symbol of Life. Those three cover the period of the band I've the least interest in, based on what's been said of those albums both here and elsewhere, but I'll probably give each of them at least one listen for completionists sake. 


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Posted By: Jbird
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2017 at 8:54am
Originally posted by Vim Fuego Vim Fuego wrote:

So why is no one voting in the poll? Is it too hard to pick the best?
I've never really listened to Paradise Lost, other than seeing them open for Nightwish in 2007. Seeing them live didn't make me want to pick up an album. Don't get me wrong, they weren't bad live by any means, just not my cup of tea.


Posted By: 666sharon666
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 8:08am
Ended up voting for Shades of God after going through their whole back catalogue.


Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 8:01am
I find myself being increasingly won over by Draconian Times. I figured one of the doom albums had a better chance of ending up my favourite but its this one currently in the frame for it. Still have a few to check out though. As expected I never did get the copy of Tragic Idol that I ordered. 

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Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 7:07am
Finishing checking out their stuff today. Leaving the non-metal Host for last since I don't expect that one to be to my taste.

Currently on Believe in Nothing. Anyone else feel this one belongs more in Alternative Metal than Gothic?


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Posted By: TheHeavyMetalCat
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 10:06am
Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Currently on Believe in Nothing. Anyone else feel this one belongs more in Alternative Metal than Gothic?


I think it has elements of both but overall I think I'd agree with this. I recently finished going through their studio albums and actually there's a few instances where I'd change the tag on their main albums. I guess there's bound to be disagreements when a band has changed their sound a few times but for me this would be accurate:

Lost Paradise - Death-Doom Metal
Gothic - Death-Doom Metal
Shades of God - Doom Metal
Icon - Gothic Metal
Draconian Times - Gothic Metal
One Second - Gothic Metal
Host - Non-Metal
Believe in Nothing - Alternative Metal
Symbol of Life - Gothic Metal
Paradise Lost - Gothic Metal
In Requiem - Gothic Metal
Faith Divides Us - Death Unites Us - Gothic Metal
Tragic Idol - Gothic Metal
The Plague Within - Gothic Metal or Death-Doom Metal
Medusa - Death-Doom Metal

This is mostly what we have expect for Shades of God, Believe in Nothing and The Plague Within. Let me explain my reasoning:

Shades of God: This album is markedly different from either Gothic or Icon either side of it, especially vocally. I don't get too much of a death metal impression from this album.

Believe in Nothing: I do think this one musically sounds a bit different overall than their other gothic material, especially in riff style.

The Plague Within: This partly comes from the fact that Shades of God is widely seen as death-doom when the vocals are much more death here than they are on that one. But also because Paradise Lost really brought the actual doom music back on a joint footing with the gothic metal before this album, at least on Tragic Idol and arguably also on Faith Divides Us. The only thing that changed between Tragic Idol and this one was the growling making a comeback, so I think if anything this one should still be considered Gothic first and foremost if those are. Gothic metal as a genre does use harsh vocals even if Paradise Lost themselves never applied them to their gothic work before. But more than anything it makes no sense for Shades of God to count as death-doom if this one doesn't. :P


Posted By: TheHeavyMetalCat
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 11:09am
And as for my favourite of the discography I think I'm going to have to go with the majority and say Shades of God.


Posted By: 666sharon666
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 3:59am
I agree about Shades of God, Ashley. The vocals are kind of harsh but not really death metal harsh.


Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2017 at 5:37am
Just found out they're playing practically on my doorstep in February.

Tickets booked, naturally. Big smile


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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2017 at 6:56am
^I´d be interested to hear what you think of them live. It´s been many years since I saw them last, and I always felt a bit underwhelmed by their live performances, which meant I haven´t gone the last many times they´ve visited Copenhagen.

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Posted By: Alex
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 6:12am
Draconian Times will probably be forever known as the Paradise Lost album and not without good reason, but I favour The Plague Within as their best. I find it the most balanced between their gothic, doom and even death-doom styles.


Posted By: MorniumGoatahl
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2017 at 2:56am
I'm not that keen on gothic metal in general but I have always thought Paradise Lost were one of the better bands. I prefer them playing doom though. Historically Gothic has been my favourite but recently I've really been won over by their most recent two. I've voted Medusa though. 


Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2018 at 1:24pm
This time next week and I'll be seeing them live. Big smile

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Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2018 at 2:28pm
Surprised that Draconian Times has no votes.


Posted By: adg211288
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2018 at 2:31pm
It does now. I never actually voted on this before. My favourite is real tough to call but Draconian Times does really stand out for me.

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Posted By: Unitron
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2018 at 2:51pm
I've only listened to the first five as well as Medusa, and I think I voted Lost Paradise. I might have voted Shades of God though.


Posted By: LittleBig
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 12:29am
their self titled album from 2005, Tragic Idol, In Requiem and especially Faith Divides Us - Death Unites Us are worth checking out 



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