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Is Black Sabbath realy heavy metal

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Time Signature Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2013 at 3:15am
To me, the interesting aspect of this discussion is how metal has developed, and the lesson is that we have to be able to - hard though it is - step out of our origo (the here-now-I perspective of our ego) and take a bird's eye view in order to be able to understand why Queen, Grand Funk, and Mountain are metal when Cannibal Corpse, Napalm Death, and Dying Fetus are also metal. Or to understand the application of the metal label to as diverse acts as Bon Jovi, AC/DC, Soundgarden, Anal Cunt, Golden Resurrection, Novaks Kapelle, MC5, and even Nirvana.

And, yes, there is a lot of really heavy music on the first handful of Queen albums.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingcrimsonprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2013 at 3:37am
Yeah. That was the point of Metal Evolution. And my list.    Theres been a big wave of internet based historical revisionism from some metal fans wanting to eject their less favourite bands and albums from the genre because thrir ego cant handle something specific they dislike being labeled similar to sonething they like in general. Or they are to lazy or inexperienced to find thr connections in the case of some of the more nasty trolls.   
Ive always found it funny how Dokken and Twisted Sister sound more like Msiden and Priest than Slayer do, but noone ever says Slayer aren't Metal.


My Blog: http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChaosAngel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 11:21pm
Black Sabbath, to me, are not metal per se.  They are very instrumental in the birth of metal, and have influenced almost every metal band out there.  That being said, they are firmly a part of proto-metal, a pillar upon which metal as we know it is built.

Honestly, IMHO, for most intents and purposes, metal begins with Judas Priest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2013 at 12:02am
Nah dude, Vol. 4 was already more metal than anything Priest would do until like 1978. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Colt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2013 at 3:00am


Other artists included, Journey and REO Speedwagon.

...and this was 1980.

Discuss.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bosh66 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2013 at 6:04am
I used to have that Killerwatts album on tape. Introduced me to a good number of "hard rock" outfits, as well as a couple of metal ones.
Molly Hatchet Flirtin' With Disaster still sounds awesome.
 
The wider media have often tried to lump hard rock bands in with metal. Perhaps pop fans who enjoy a bit of rock like to feel they have a heavy metal album in their collection? It used to be considered cool as a genre. An example would be the rise of so called "soft metal" albums a while back, which would include Kayleigh by Marillion, Tow The Line by Toto and something by Mr Mister. Rock on dudes!


Edited by Bosh66 - 17 Apr 2013 at 6:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tupan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2013 at 8:58am
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

Nah dude, Vol. 4 was already more metal than anything Priest would do until like 1978. 


Master of Reality was metal before!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2013 at 1:11pm
They are all metal of course... I just used Volume 4 as an example because it's so crushing :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2013 at 1:01am
Originally posted by satangodofmetal satangodofmetal wrote:

I was listening to an album called scream by ozzy, and it sounded heavy but is it realy heavy metal?



  How is Ozzy Osbourne Black Sabbath??
"Before you see the light you must die!!!!!!!!!!" - Slayer

"Today is born the seventh one, born of woman, the seventh son" - Steve Harris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Angry Scotsman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2013 at 8:14pm
Well...was it Ozzy you were listening to, or Black Sabbath?

Anyway, YES.
Black Sabbath is heavy metal.
And to even wonder otherwise gets you 666 years in hellEvil Smile
Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer and Testament. The real Big Four of thrash metal!



Listen to doom metal, worship Satan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Certif1ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2013 at 4:35am
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:


Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

Queen is a heavy metal pioneer?� I'm pretty sure they have like 2 songs that anybody could describe as metal

Queen has lots of heavy metal related moments in their music. Read my reviews of their first 7 albums where I point some of them outWink


The song "Stone Cold Crazy" on the album "Sheer Heart Attack" (if memory serves me correctly!!!), released in 1974 is possibly the very first thrash metal song, and you could trace the link from that song, via The Sweet's "Set Me Free" ("Sweet Fanny Adams", also 1974) to Judas Priest ("Exciter").


Originally posted by ChaosAngel ChaosAngel wrote:

Black Sabbath, to me, are not metal per se. They are very instrumental in the birth of metal, and have influenced almost every metal band out there. That being said, they are firmly a part of proto-metal, a pillar upon which metal as we know it is built.Honestly, IMHO, for most intents and purposes, metal begins with Judas Priest.


I would love to have this conversation in full, but work is really busy. I'll revisit in a month or so when it all quietens down, but Sabbath practically invented Heavy Metal. Priest took a lot of inspiration from Sabbath (and even shared the same producer, Rodger Bain, on their first 2 albums).

Priest also took influence from fellow Brummies The Sweet, and Queen - Metal does not begin with Priest, but Priest were the biggest single influence on the NWoBHM in 1979.

Metal can be seen to begin with the heavy blues bands - it evolved from the blues - such as Cream (1966), Hendrix (there is an untraceable report of a journalist describing his music as "Heavy Metal falling from the sky"), Spooky Tooth (who recorded an album in 1967 as "The Heavy Metal Kids, and influenced Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin), and others that I discussed in a "Proto Metal Appreciation" thread a while back - none "pure" metal, but all pulled the right ingredients together.

Sabbath made what I would think of as the first "pure" metal, but then we'd have to define Heavy Metal to settle this one!

There is a red herring doing the rounds in most "History of Metal" articles I've read, which is worth of exposure for whatever nuggets of truth really lie in it, and that is the use of the phrase "Heavy Metal Thunder" in Steppenwolf's "Born To Be Wild".

I am pleased to note that the Wikipedia article on Steppenwolf has recently been updated to correct this reference! How they got their name, and what the name stands for is fascinating too, and has driven me to seek out the book. It does explain quite a lot about the metal culture.

Why aren't The Who considered heavy metal? Is it because of their cultural associations? Just a thought to consider - I'm not hung up on this, so please don't bust a gut trying to explain why they're not metal, as I don't really care!


The term was bandied about quite a lot by journalists and fans in the early 1970s, and referred typically to bands like Zep, Purple, Queen and Kiss. Who are we now to say that what they called heavy metal back then is no longer heavy metal?

Enough of my rambling, already - must crack on.
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