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'alternative' metal... discuss

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micky View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Mar 2010 at 4:48pm
thoughts....   possible definitions...   does such a thing exist?

for those that missed it....  came up while discussing Alice in Chains.. and others of the ilk and time period not added here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jampa17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2010 at 5:21pm
Like Soundgarden or some like that...
 
Well, there are bands that plays very loud that fits great in the Alternative definition, but that can be considered metal for their heaviness... I guess those bands exists... You know... Godsmack and Disturbed are bands that fit with that definition... right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pekka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 2:04am
I'm going to quote myself from this thread: http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65

Originally posted by Pekka Pekka wrote:

Agree. Even though as I understand them I don't see much connection between alternative and nu, I feel that sometimes they're lumped together, or that nu-metal is seen somehow as a part of the whole alternative metal thing, whatever that means in the end.

Nu metal really is a swear word to many people, I think it could be included within Alternative metal pretty painlessly. How do other metal sites use those genres?

The problem for me, as I said in the AiC thread, is that even though I use the term "alternative metal" and have a sort of an abstract picture of it in my head, I have no idea how to define its limits.

There's a very good article on alternative metal in Wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_metal It very well puts to words the idea I've had of the genre all along, so I think we could replace Nu-Metal with Alternative Metal and include the Nu field in it along with all these other bands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balthamel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 2:25am
well Soudgarden is here, they are listed as Doom metal, and im quite pleased by that.

I think it suits them better and they fitt the describtion for Doom metal so maybe Alice in Chains also cold be Doom metal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balthamel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 2:25am
and congrats Micky, now a Groupie

Edited by Balthamel - 27 Mar 2010 at 2:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeathOfSeasons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 2:36am
Originally posted by Balthamel Balthamel wrote:

well Soudgarden is here, they are listed as Doom metal, and im quite pleased by that.

I think it suits them better and they fitt the describtion for Doom metal so maybe Alice in Chains also cold be Doom metal
Really? I do not here any Doom Metal at all in Alice in Chains or Soundgarden.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pekka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 2:40am
Whoa, I've never thought those bands could be even close to doom metal. To me that word means the e x t r e m e l y   s l o w  sorrow marches of Reverend Bizarre and the storm outbreak of Sabbath's title track. As far as I know Soundgarden, there is a tiny bit of doominess I guess, but I hear none of that in AiC.

Am I becoming a genre w**ker? Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 6:43am
Originally posted by Balthamel Balthamel wrote:

and congrats Micky, now a Groupie


I do have a habit of racking up posts LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 6:47am
Originally posted by DeathOfSeasons DeathOfSeasons wrote:

Originally posted by Balthamel Balthamel wrote:

well Soudgarden is here, they are listed as Doom metal, and im quite pleased by that.

I think it suits them better and they fitt the describtion for Doom metal so maybe Alice in Chains also cold be Doom metal
Really? I do not here any Doom Metal at all in Alice in Chains or Soundgarden.


I don't think think either really fits... 'doom metal'.

reading all the responses... personally I think some sort of alternative (as in music) metal would be a nice addition here.  The definition?  Wiki might be a good place to start..

Alternative metal is a genre of heavy metal that gained popularity in the early 1990s. Most notably, alternative metal bands are characterized by heavy guitar riffs; typically, these riffs have a pronounced experimental edge, including unconventional lyrics, odd time signatures, more syncopation than typical metal, unusual technique, a resistance to conventional approaches to heavy music and an incorporation of a wide range of influences outside of the metal music scene.[1]


The term is used as a very loose categorization, but is usually used to describe artists playing a style of heavy metal music with an "alternative" approach. Many bands categorized as "alternative metal" are equally influenced by alternative rock and heavy metal.

Initially alternative metal appealed mainly to alternative rock fans since virtually all 80s alt-metal bands had their roots in the American rock underground scene. Alt-metal bands commonly emerged from hardcore punk (Corrosion of Conformity), post-punk/noise rock (Helmet, The Jesus Lizard), grunge (Alice in Chains, Soundgarden), or industrial (Ministry, Nine Inch Nails).[citation needed]

These bands never formed a distinct movement or scene; rather they were bound by their incorporation of traditional metal influences and openness to experimenting with the form. For example, Jane's Addiction utilized performance art and a bohemian aesthetic, Corrosion of Conformity, The Melvins and the recently reformed grunge band Soundgarden had a fondness for subverting '70s metal, and Faith No More, along with Living Colour, injected funk and hip hop into their brand of alternative metal, [2] while Primus incorporates an obscure Residents-esque touch.

The grunge movement of the early 1990s helped increase the audience for such bands, and these artists were as comfortable playing to alternative rock fans on various Lollapalooza line-ups (itself founded by Jane's Addiction frontman Perry Farrell) as they were opening for metal bands like Metallica. With the changing of the musical landscape by the popular breakthrough of alternative rock, "alternative metal" became a new phrase used to describe bands in the early 1990s who managed to make relevant era music that was "heavy without necessarily being metal".[3]

New bands emerged in this era with their distinctive takes on metal: Nine Inch Nails and Ministry started the industrial wave, combining punk-influenced electronic music and heavy guitars, System of a Down and Tool immersed themselves in progressive rock influences, Rage Against the Machine was as informed by hip hop and post-punk agitprop such as Gang of Four as it was by metal, and Helmet molded a background in jazz and noise-rock/post-hardcore influences into a highly influential strand of intense rock music.

As the 90s progressed, alternative metal's sound became more standardized as newer bands drew inspiration for the same collective set of influences that included Rage Against the Machine, Tool[4], Korn, Deftones, Faith No More, Fear Factory, Nine Inch Nails, Primus and Helmet. Korn, in particular, with its downtuned riffs and aggressive dissonance, created the sonic template for a new movement, which became known as nu metal. Many post-grunge bands like Alter Bridge, Hurt, 30 Seconds to Mars, Papa Roach, Hoobastank, Three Days Grace, Nickelback, Creed, Linkin Park, and Breaking Benjamin are known to be influenced by alternative metal.

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Raff View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 6:54am
Wonderful! Now everyone can start suggesting all the most outrageous subgenres, and people - instead of complaining - will be overjoyed, and compete in suggesting even moreLOL. Some of the definitions I've seen around the web are nothing short of hilarious, btw.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m@x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 6:58am
Originally posted by Balthamel Balthamel wrote:

well Soudgarden is here, they are listed as Doom metal, and im quite pleased by that.

I think it suits them better and they fitt the describtion for Doom metal so maybe Alice in Chains also cold be Doom metal


I just moved SOUNDGARDEN to Traditional Heavy Metal, and added ALICE IN CHAINS in that same subgenre too.

Historically, regarding their metal roots, it's a better fit.

Also please note that MMA artist genre is ALBUM-BASED. As time goes by, genre of artists will evolve based on re-classification of the albums by admins, collabs. and member suggestion.

Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 8:24am
Cool Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 9:41am
Originally posted by dean dean wrote:

Cool Cool


very much so...Clap


wise move M@X...  I think that could be the best way to do it.. and to implement it now.. before the site reaches PA's levels of database masterliness and becomes practically impossible to implement.


Edited by micky - 27 Mar 2010 at 9:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FusionKing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 3:26pm
Trad. Heavy Metal definately suits Soundgarden and AIC much better, after all, grunge was basically just a fuzzier take on old rock and traditional metal anyhow. That is, unless, you intend to create a grunge section to house such bands later. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NecronCommander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 6:38pm
I don't know... "Traditional Heavy Metal" still doesn't seem to fit Soundgarden/AiC.  I almost feel like grunge is closer to alternative metal than it is to heavy metal, though both these artists seem to transcend the simplicity implied by alt. metal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 6:54pm
it's a suggestion... one I think the site should seriously consider...


you can do it now.... or do it later when traditional heavy metal has balloned into ... hahah..   a unmedicated disaster of a sub with 800+ groups that sound nothing alike.... leading to people spending 6 months ..first fighting for a split... then going through all the groups.


Edited by micky - 29 Mar 2010 at 6:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kashmir75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 8:59pm
I consider 'alt metal' to be stuff like Tool, Faith No More, Helmet, personally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrEdifus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 9:32pm
Doom and Traditional don't fit Soundgarden or Alice In Chains very well.

We MIGHT have to take yet another leaf out of PA's book: Proto-Metal and Metal Related categories, perhaps?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by Kashmir75 Kashmir75 wrote:

I consider 'alt metal' to be stuff like Tool, Faith No More, Helmet, personally.


yeah.... was thinking along those lines myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kashmir75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 11:00pm
What about stuff like System of A Down? For years they were lumped into 'nu metal', but I think they can't really be bracketed into that. I think, with all their Zappa, Primus, and Faith No More influences, they better fit into alternative metal. 
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