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William Shakespeare vs J. S. Bach

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Poll Question: Who dop you consider more of a genius?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
3 [30.00%]
7 [70.00%]
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Henry Plainview View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Henry Plainview Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: William Shakespeare vs J. S. Bach
    Posted: 03 May 2010 at 10:24pm
Kenneth spent the whole frickin movie whispering, it was unbearable.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Pessimist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2010 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by The T 666 The T 666 wrote:

Originally posted by The Pessimist The Pessimist wrote:

[

Teo: I quite agree. Sitting through 48 ANYTHING can be pretty undertaking. I mean, Chopoin's Nocturnes are supposedly some of the most beautiful pieces ever written (and I don't disagree), but I couldn't sit through every single one in succession. I don't think they were supposed to be played like that anyway, they're more a kind of compilation to prove the flexibility of the keyboard than anything By the way have you listened to the Mass in B Minor? I prefer it to St Matthew's Passion in ways, you should check it out. The harmonies are absolutely lush...

Of course I have  I own an excellent version with Karajan and the Berliner Philarmoniker. It's precisely one of those works that make me wonder "what if they're right after all"... Smile


This is probably the best analogy of Mass in B Minor that I've ever heard. The nail was there, and you hit it right on the head man

Same goes for St John's Passion as well I reckon.

Time Signature: I love Branagh's version of Hamlet as well. As for DiCaprio's Romeo and Juliet, I thought it was a bit poor tbh. His actuing wasn't superb either. Not that he's a bad actor or anything (quite the opposite in fact), but I don't think Shakespeare is his thing really... just my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2010 at 11:53am
Laurence Olivier's Hamlet is one of my favourite films of all times Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Time Signature Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2010 at 11:50am
Originally posted by The Pessimist The Pessimist wrote:


By the way, what's your favourite Shakespeare play, just curious?


Tough one. I must admit that I like Branagh's versions of Othello and Hamlet (I also like the Mel Gibson version), but I dislike the DiCaprio version of Romeo and Juliet. Back in the 90s I saw an even more miserable theatrical version in Denmark, starring Mads Mikkelsen as a greasy and not very convincing Romeo. I also like Midsummer Night's Dream and MacBeth.

Oh, and Forbidden Planet's a great (free) interpretation of The Tempest. :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2010 at 11:40am
Originally posted by Any Colour You Like Any Colour You Like wrote:

Apart from the fact you cannot compare them, Shakespeare is an undeniable monolithic figure in western literature and society.


This.

My favourite plays are

Hamlet
Romeo and Juliet
Macbeth
King Lear

then

Othello, Timon of Athens, The Merchant of Venice, Richard the Third, Antony and Cleopatra, A Midsummer Night's Dream, The Taming of the Shrew, etc. I also love the Sonnets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T 666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2010 at 11:37am
Originally posted by The Pessimist The Pessimist wrote:

[

Teo: I quite agree. Sitting through 48 ANYTHING can be pretty undertaking. I mean, Chopoin's Nocturnes are supposedly some of the most beautiful pieces ever written (and I don't disagree), but I couldn't sit through every single one in succession. I don't think they were supposed to be played like that anyway, they're more a kind of compilation to prove the flexibility of the keyboard than anything By the way have you listened to the Mass in B Minor? I prefer it to St Matthew's Passion in ways, you should check it out. The harmonies are absolutely lush...

Of course I have  I own an excellent version with Karajan and the Berliner Philarmoniker. It's precisely one of those works that make me wonder "what if they're right after all"... Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Pessimist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2010 at 11:25am
Glad we are on the same page dude.

By the way, what's your favourite Shakespeare play, just curious?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Time Signature Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2010 at 11:04am
Originally posted by The Pessimist The Pessimist wrote:

So in essence, I'm going to have to say I appreciate their genius equally, now that I know Shakespeare was not THAT much difference in term of where his genius lies.


That's what I was trying to say, too... basically :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Pessimist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2010 at 10:41am
Originally posted by Time Signature Time Signature wrote:


I've found that I actually do not like to read Shakespeare's plays. I prefer to watch theatrical or cinematic interpretations. And that's how the plays were intended to be experienced - in some form of stage drama. I feel that it's when you see how his plays can be interpreted over and over again in very different way that you see what his genius really was.


I can say exactly the same thing about Bach:

(to alter your quote slightly )

"I've found that I actually do not like to read Bach's cantatas, suites and oratorios. I prefer to watch theatrical or cinematic interpretations. And that's how the music was intended to be experienced - in some form of performance and drama. I feel that it's when you see how his music can be interpreted over and over again in very different way that you see what his genius really was."

So in essence, I'm going to have to say I appreciate their genius equally, now that I know Shakespeare was not THAT much difference in term of where his genius lies.

Following on from thellama73, Teo and NJCat_11:

@ thellama73: I think you'll find Bach rarely ever uses parallel 5ths, it's in 3rds and 6ths 99.99% of the time. Standard Baroque discipline. And Bach wrote music, however it is up to the player to make it sound musical. A bad player will make Bach sound utterly boring, but a good player will uncover the layers, hidden melodies, themes and voices for all their glory, and if you listen to Bach played well properly, you'll find yourself completely lost in it.

Teo: I quite agree. Sitting through 48 ANYTHING can be pretty undertaking. I mean, Chopoin's Nocturnes are supposedly some of the most beautiful pieces ever written (and I don't disagree), but I couldn't sit through every single one in succession. I don't think they were supposed to be played like that anyway, they're more a kind of compilation to prove the flexibility of the keyboard than anything By the way have you listened to the Mass in B Minor? I prefer it to St Matthew's Passion in ways, you should check it out. The harmonies are absolutely lush...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Time Signature Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2010 at 3:40am
I can't even begin to compare them, so I haven't voted. They were geniuses within two very different spheres of art. I think that Shakespeare may be more important in the sense that more people are exposed to his works - I mean Shakespeare is typically a compulsory topic in secondary and university level courses. But of course, that's poopular opinion, and it doesn't say much about the genius of Shakespeare or Bach, but about the importance/accessibility of the media they worked within.

Like Raff, I have a degree in English language and literature, so I've read my share of Shakespeare, and I've found that I actually do not like to read Shakespeare's plays. I prefer to watch theatrical or cinematic interpretations. And that's how the plays were intended to be experienced - in some form of stage drama. I feel that it's when you see how his plays can be interpreted over and over again in very different way that you see what his genius really was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Henry Plainview Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2010 at 12:54am
Shakespeare, of course. Nobody impacted Western culture the way Shakespeare did. Music may be important, but we speak with words.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2010 at 6:59am
Since this is a music forum, it's not surprising that Bach is running away with this poll. In my personal opinion, it's very much an 'apples and oranges' question - comparing a writer with a composer (or a painter, for that matter) is next to impossible. Anyway, being more familiar with Shakespeare's work than Bach's (I have a degree in English Literature, after all), I'll give my vote to the Bard, who wrote some of the most beautiful (and true) words on the human condition that I have ever happened to read.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2010 at 3:14am
I never "got" Shakespeare.
It just never clicked as particularly interesting to me.
Bach however, is the man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote topofsm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2010 at 11:55am
Originally posted by The Pessimist The Pessimist wrote:

That is exactly what I like to see

By the way topofsm, are you going to produce any metal collages while you're here? I'd love to see a few
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NJCat_11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by The T 666 The T 666 wrote:

I see what you mean. Of course sitting through all 48 prelude and fugues of Das Well Tempered Klavier is quite an undertaking, but when he writes beautiful music, he can't be touched. And as irreligious as I am, the only moments when I doubt my doubts occur when I listen to the kind of unearthly sounds that this man composed for a higher power that he only saw in his heart... No academicism there... Just art of the highest kind.


One of my favorite examples of this would be St. Matthew Passion (Mathaus Passion).


Edited by NJCat_11 - 22 Apr 2010 at 11:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T 666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 11:18pm
I see what you mean. Of course sitting through all 48 prelude and fugues of Das Well Tempered Klavier is quite an undertaking, but when he writes beautiful music, he can't be touched. And as irreligious as I am, the only moments when I doubt my doubts occur when I listen to the kind of unearthly sounds that this man composed for a higher power that he only saw in his heart... No academicism there... Just art of the highest kind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by The T 666 The T 666 wrote:

Whoever says that his music is purely academic has never really heard it, for it can reach one's soul and heart as easily as a romantic.


Don't get me wrong, The Brandenburg Concertos are magnificent and much of his violin music and orchestral works are as well. But I've mainly studied his keyboard works and I feel that in much of it (certainly not all) he tends to get so caught up in intervals, parallel fifth, thematic transposition and so forth that he forgot to write music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NJCat_11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 9:45pm
One way to piss off a classical music connoisseur:

Refer to Bach's Toccata & Fugue in D minor as "that Halloween song."
Absolute masterpiece.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T 666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 8:52pm
For me there's no question. My more than 25 cd's of his music should be a telling sign of my preference. What he did with a language that is totally abstract is absolutely majestic, and will never be equaled. Whoever says that his music is purely academic has never really heard it, for it can reach one's soul and heart as easily as a romantic. 

Shakespeare is a genius on its own right. But for me the greatest artist of all time PERIOD in all regards is and will always be Johann Sebastian Bach. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NJCat_11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 7:38pm
As much as I love Shakespeare, Bach is perhaps the most prolific composer in history (although I prefer Vivaldi).  Both Shakespeare and Bach revolutionized their respective fields but I much prefer music to literature.
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