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dreadpirateroberts View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Jun 2012 at 5:04pm
^ Yep, it's him, often one of the least informative and thus least useful (professional) reviewers around.
I often find myself complaining about him due to his work too often failing to meet several rather important basic criteria for a review.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingcrimsonprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2012 at 8:56am
Originally posted by dreadpirateroberts dreadpirateroberts wrote:

^ Some of the 'bad points' as you suggest them make me think of Christgau a bit, in terms of the strive for cleverness that tells the reader zip about an album


Never heard of it or them or him.

Is it this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Christgau ?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2012 at 8:48am
Originally posted by Kingcrimsonprog Kingcrimsonprog wrote:

A few personal choice things, I don't like when a review scores each individual track. I have no reason to dislike it, and don't understand why I do, but I still do for whatever reason.

Track by track would never be my first choice of review format but I can tolerate it. The only thing I dislike about it is when a reviewer scores every track and then gives the album an overall score that doesn't match up with it, for example rating all tracks with at least 3.5 stars then saying it's only a 2 star album overall. I'll always say that text means hell of a lot more than numbers but it is something of a pet peeve of mine. Along the same lines I always have a WTF moment when a reviewer writes a score in the text which is different to the rating attached to the review. I'd say this is more than a pet peeve though and actually go as far to say I consider it bad practice and misleading to people who read the review, since if you're like me, and look at the rating first, and then read something that doesn't match up with it all that review ultimately told me that the reviewer wasn't actually ready to review that album. I know its a harsh view to take but I think the most important thing with any review is to be clear. Mismatched ratings of any kind of not clear IMO.

That turned out longer than intended. Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dreadpirateroberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2012 at 8:18am
^ Some of the 'bad points' as you suggest them make me think of Christgau a bit, in terms of the strive for cleverness that tells the reader zip about an album
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingcrimsonprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2012 at 5:17am
I give out a lot of five star reviews... but this is because often only five star albums move me to write.
If something is bad I usually don't have anything to say about it, unless it is a warning about poor quality amateur DVDs being sold as if they were big budget affairs.

As for my likes and dislikes... I think I might have accidentally stolen UMMR's style. It wasn't intentional but I did notice when I got here that I had started to think it was the best possible way to write.


I recently wrote a blog post about what I dislike, phrases in particular: http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/3357/

What I also dislike is a lot of negativity, superiority complexes, trying to prove how smart you are and other general bad personality traits.

A few personal choice things, I don't like when a review scores each individual track. I have no reason to dislike it, and don't understand why I do, but I still do for whatever reason.

My absolute number one pet peeve is when a review isn't about the album. If its a story about how you went to download festival, or a rant about when the band sold out, or a question about amplifiers, or something else that isn't actually a review.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2012 at 2:04pm
I know. It'll be a five star masterpiece to some individuals. That's rather worrying to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Time Signature Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2012 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

...well there are actually people out there who like music like that...


And they're sick shits!

Nah, just kidding ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2012 at 9:28am
...well there are actually people out there who like music like that...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2012 at 8:22am
I haven't heard the album you linked to there, nor wish to for that matter, but for albums such as that it is hard to respect the artist. 

However I actually think your review for that album is about as respectful as you possibly could have been in that case. It's a well written review for something that clearly has no issues with not being respectful in its own right. Going out and intentionally making an album like that does not deserve respect IMO and it cases like this the review would be a lie if you didn't say exactly how you feel. 

When talking about do respectful negative reviews I'm not thinking of albums with no other intent than to shock with sick shit like that, if you'll pardon the unavoidable pun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilytank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2012 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

Yeah and I would be lying if I didn�t admit that I find such reviews entertainingSmile, but they are not very respectful.

The way I see it, if I'm supposed to write a respectful review, then the band needs to earn my respect.  If they make an album that I consider vapid, they have failed to earn my respect.  Thus, I cannot show respect in my review because there is no respect to show.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2012 at 9:37am
Yeah and I would be lying if I didn�t admit that I find such reviews entertainingSmile, but they are not very respectful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilytank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2012 at 9:02am
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Yeah sometimes no matter how hard I look I can't find much to say about an album, especially ones I gave mid-range ratings to. 

Of course negative reviews are the hardest to write. But I think the important thing to remember is that honesty is the best approach, and in my experience artists appreciate that. It's definitely possible to write a negative review while being respectful. 

Actually thinking about it, on the talk of professionalism with reviews, I think that the ability to write a respectful negative review is about the ultimate test. 
 
You�re damn right about that. It�s extremely hard to write a negative review in a respectful manner. "ultimate reviewer test" is definitely the right term for it.

The problem with that is that often if it's an extremely negative view, you feel that the artist doesn't deserve respect.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2012 at 3:38am
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2012 at 3:09am
One of my 0.5's is for a single, sorry I mean for a man who's a table. Another is for the album that spawned that single. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilytank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2012 at 6:44pm
I only have more because I have more stuff rated.  Most of the .5/5s are singles.  Quite a few of them are singles that were on the radio, and you guys can guess how much I hate goddamn public radio.

Breakdown by rating: 

0.50 stars27 (1.65%)
1.00 stars19 (1.16%)
1.50 stars23 (1.40%)
2.00 stars27 (1.65%)
2.50 stars61 (3.73%)
3.00 stars130 (7.96%)
3.50 stars205 (12.5%)
4.00 stars501 (30.6%)
4.50 stars441 (27.0%)
5.00 stars198 (12.1%)

Average Rating: 3.89 stars 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2012 at 4:52pm
If I went through all my oldest ratings there'd probably be a few 5's that would get downgraded to 4.5 now. 

Honestly I'm very casual with rating without reviewing. If I rate then review later my rating sometimes goes up but just as often goes down as I take a more objective approach. 

My breakdown looks very different:

0.50 stars3 (0.35%)
1.00 stars12 (1.43%)
1.50 stars8 (0.95%)
2.00 stars17 (2.02%)
2.50 stars17 (2.02%)
3.00 stars58 (6.91%)
3.50 stars143 (17.0%)
4.00 stars263 (31.3%)
4.50 stars200 (23.8%)
5.00 stars118 (14.0%)

Average Rating: 3.95 stars 

Respect for never giving out a 0.5 by the way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2012 at 3:01pm
These are my statistics from RYM:
 
Breakdown by rating:

0.50 stars 0 (0.0%)
1.00 stars 16 (1.47%)
1.50 stars 8 (0.73%)
2.00 stars 41 (3.76%)
2.50 stars 76 (6.98%)
3.00 stars 256 (23.5%)
3.50 stars 372 (34.1%)
4.00 stars 260 (23.8%)
4.50 stars 44 (4.04%)
5.00 stars 15 (1.37%)

Average Rating: 3.38 stars
That�s fifteen 5 star reviews out of 1088 reviews, so yeah you are right I seldom give out 5 stars.Smile
 
...I�m still rating higher than I probably should, but it has a lot to do with the fact that I often review music that I like. It�s not often I�m in the mood to spend time with a release I�m giving 2.5 stars or lower. That�s simply releases I have no interest in.


Edited by UMUR - 05 Jun 2012 at 3:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2012 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

I think people have all sorts of different systems and reasons for rating as they do.
  

Yeah, makes me think of something I read on the Rate Your Music FAQ about rating systems. 2 stars can be a good album in some people's view.

Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

I probably rate some albums with 5 stars that you would absolutely hate and visa versa. Personally I rate albums with 5 stars if they are exceptional in my book. I don�t consider, and I don�t necessarily think it�s important, if anyone else feels the same way. Some people rate lo-fi noisy black metal demos with 5 star ratings, which are usually releases I give 1 star ratings. IMO it�s all down to personal taste. What moves you and what leaves you cold.

I don't see you give out full 5's that often. I'm more free with them than I sometimes care to be but I do find it hard not to when I album gets me going so much that it goes on heavy rotation for weeks on end. The different systems thing again I guess. I can tell from the text of reviews you've done for albums I've rated 5 stars that we seem to regard the album about the same in many cases. Honestly when we're talking reviews the text is worth a lot more than the rating given at the end of it. Some sites/magazines don't even score their reviews.

I think my leaning towards 4 stars and above comes on my part from reading other reviews, especially when I was starting out, and see people rating albums with 7/10 and then saying that there's nothing wrong with it. To be 7/10, or 3.5 stars per MMA, tells me that a release is good but there is something holding it back, otherwise why'd it lose those points? That's why unless I find something really notably wrong with an album I give it at least 4 stars. I know I did just say that rating isn't as important as text, but I do think if you are putting a rating on your text should match up with that rating. Hence if I don't have any major complaints, I give 4 stars or more.

That's my system anyhow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2012 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Yeah sometimes no matter how hard I look I can't find much to say about an album, especially ones I gave mid-range ratings to. 

Of course negative reviews are the hardest to write. But I think the important thing to remember is that honesty is the best approach, and in my experience artists appreciate that. It's definitely possible to write a negative review while being respectful. 

Actually thinking about it, on the talk of professionalism with reviews, I think that the ability to write a respectful negative review is about the ultimate test. 
 
You�re damn right about that. It�s extremely hard to write a negative review in a respectful manner. "ultimate reviewer test" is definitely the right term for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2012 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Man, I'm struggling right now to write a review for a favorite artist - the artist is a favorite of mine, but I don't think his new album is all that great.  I mean, I loved some of the tracks, but over all I don't think I'd recommend it.  So I'm struggling to write a positive/negative review - positive about the artist but honest about the fact that I didn't think the album was his best.

I've only ever written one absolutely scathing review, and I probably wasn't respectful but dang it, I was mad, haha!  I never put it up here - it's over on Prog Archives, but I'm telling you it seems like no one gives anything by this artist anything but 5 stars, and when I was listening to it it just seemed so out there and weird - like, come on, be honest that this is NOT for everyone, you know?  5 stars should mean that you would instantly recommend it to anyone and everyone, and it seemed like anyone should be able to recognize that this one was NOT for anyone and everyone, by a long shot.  I don't know if that makes sense, but there it is.

Rant over, haha!
 
I think people have all sorts of different systems and reasons for rating as they do. I probably rate some albums with 5 stars that you would absolutely hate and visa versa. Personally I rate albums with 5 stars if they are exceptional in my book. I don�t consider, and I don�t necessarily think it�s important, if anyone else feels the same way. Some people rate lo-fi noisy black metal demos with 5 star ratings, which are usually releases I give 1 star ratings. IMO it�s all down to personal taste. What moves you and what leaves you cold.
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