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Kingcrimsonprog View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 May 2012 at 4:56pm
If anyone has the time, could they skin through this and see if there are any glaring omissions please ?

http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/list-of-albums-that-you-need-to-have-heard-to-have-a-full-and-comprehensive-understanding-of-metal-music/

Basically, its like a Top 300 Metal albums of all time list, except rather than being exactly "THE.BEST.METAL.ALBUMS." its 300 albums you'd need you have heard to fully and comprehensively understand the entirety of metal.

So there's punk and hardcore, grunge, prog and post hardcore stuff in there too, becuase people mix that in with metal all the time, and there's some of the most definitive albums from most Metal subgenres in there too, Including some of the newer ones.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diogenes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2012 at 5:47pm
Holy hell that's a big list.  There's no way I can give enough suggestions, especially because you only listed the album names and not the bands (not to criticize-I wouldn't be bothered to do 1/3 of what you have), but here's what I've got (and sorry if I missed something that's already on there):

-I would try to put a Devin Townsend band album on there
-Technical death metal should be given its dues.  Suffocation, Gorguts, and the more modern stuff as well.
-It's technically an EP but I would include Morbid Tales. 
-Some Euro power metal is needed.

And I would look for albums by bands that are redundant, even though they're influential.  For example, do the first 3 Morbid Angel albums, both Keeper of the Seven Keys albums, 2 Lamb of God albums, etc. really need to be on there, when just one of them can make their point?  If you're going to do any swapping, I would start by looking into this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingcrimsonprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2012 at 6:44pm
Good points. I did wonder if it was worth deleting multiple entries per band, because it started out as a normal Top 100 thing and then evolved.

Good idea with the band names, I definitely think I'll add them.

I did put a Devin Townsend album in there, Ziltoid. Or is this a case like Ian Gillain where he has more than one band with his name in it ?


I don't really know enough about Technical Death, I'll have to have a look into that.

Any ideas on the Ambient Black Metal stuff ? I'm clueless, but it seems like it would need representing.

I also wonder about Elton John, The Velvet Underground, The Police & The Prodigy... I've never directly heard that many metal bands say they were influenced by them, but it seems like they would've based on playing together or whatever, and Axl Rose liked them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diogenes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2012 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by Kingcrimsonprog Kingcrimsonprog wrote:

Good points. I did wonder if it was worth deleting multiple entries per band, because it started out as a normal Top 100 thing and then evolved.

Good idea with the band names, I definitely think I'll add them.

I did put a Devin Townsend album in there, Ziltoid. Or is this a case like Ian Gillain where he has more than one band with his name in it ?


I don't really know enough about Technical Death, I'll have to have a look into that.

Any ideas on the Ambient Black Metal stuff ? I'm clueless, but it seems like it would need representing.

I also wonder about Elton John, The Velvet Underground, The Police & The Prodigy... I've never directly heard that many metal bands say they were influenced by them, but it seems like they would've based on playing together or whatever, and Axl Rose liked them.


Nah, I meant The Devin Townsend Band.  Totally different from his solo stuff.  Sorry, I should have been more clear on that. 

And I have no freaking idea about the ambient black metal thing.  That's not my realm at all.  I assume Wilytank will chime in later with some suggestions for that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilytank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2012 at 7:39pm
I'd take away Dimmu Borgir's Puritanical Gobbledygook and put in Enthroned Darkness Triumphant, which was their first album that showed their modern style.  Any reason why you chose Puritanical...?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2012 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by Kingcrimsonprog Kingcrimsonprog wrote:



Any ideas on the Ambient Black Metal stuff ? I'm clueless, but it seems like it would need representing.



I haven't read your list yet, but check out Vindensang
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilytank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2012 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by Kingcrimsonprog Kingcrimsonprog wrote:


Any ideas on the Ambient Black Metal stuff ? I'm clueless, but it seems like it would need representing.


Definitely Paysage d'Hiver, particularly Steineiche and Schattengang.  Maybe Striborg as well with Mysterious Semblance, Spiritual Catharsis, and Trepidation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingcrimsonprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2012 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by Wilytank Wilytank wrote:

Originally posted by Kingcrimsonprog Kingcrimsonprog wrote:


Any ideas on the Ambient Black Metal stuff ? I'm clueless, but it seems like it would need representing.


Definitely Paysage d'Hiver, particularly Steineiche and Schattengang.  Maybe Striborg as well with Mysterious Semblance, Spiritual Catharsis, and Trepidation.


Cool, cheers.
The reason I went for Puritanical' was that I'd seen it in a few lists, but I've seen 'Enthroned in lists too, so I'll bow to your judgment.




Oh, got the band names in it now. Took about an hour lol.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Colt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 4:06am
I applaud the effort, this is a tough ask.

Personally, a couple of major errors and omissions.

The Metal genre is far too diverse to allow the luxury of multiple entries for most artists. Although I can see the need for some. 

Only  6 NWoBHM bands? The bands chosen dont represent the diversity of the time sufficiently. 

Please excuse me if these bands are included and I have missed them but these are a must include IMO. (off the top of my head)

Nazareth, UFO, Blue Cheer, Spooky Tooth, Budgie, Aerosmith,The Kinks, Pentagram, Slade, The Sweet, Steppenwolf.

Obviously, open to debate.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 4:35am
I think its a good work so far. My personal suggestions from the genres I know best would be:

For power metal:

Gamma Ray - Land of the Free. Kai Hansen is widely considered the godfather of power metal so although you have Keepers I & II in there I think at least one Gamma Ray is needed. By the way, Helloween is spelt wrong on both entries. Needs an extra 'l' Wink


Also a total lack of Blind Guardian. 


For folk metal:

If I'm honest, not the best represented genre. Skyclad is a good choice although that album is apparently more like thrash metal with folk influences. Turisas Are one of the biggest acts so I approve that one. Alestorm a bit iffy, great album but wouldn't be my first choice. I'd say it needs some Cruachan in there. Either of these should do, the first because it's a very early folk metal release and the second because it's still the best folk metal release I've ever heard.


Some Аркона wouldn't go amiss either.


And although I'm not really big on either band, Moonsorrow, Eluveitie and Korpiklaani are some of the biggest names of the style.

Symphonic Metal:

Two great choices. Needs more. I recommend:


And I think Therion should have at least one album in there. Most likely this one, their first symphonic metal album:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingcrimsonprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 11:13am
Originally posted by Colt Colt wrote:

I applaud the effort, this is a tough ask.

Personally, a couple of major errors and omissions.

The Metal genre is far too diverse to allow the luxury of multiple entries for most artists. Although I can see the need for some. 

Only  6 NWoBHM bands? The bands chosen dont represent the diversity of the time sufficiently. 

Please excuse me if these bands are included and I have missed them but these are a must include IMO. (off the top of my head)

Nazareth, UFO, Blue Cheer, Spooky Tooth, Budgie, Aerosmith,The Kinks, Pentagram, Slade, The Sweet, Steppenwolf.

Obviously, open to debate.




Oh, some nice ideas there. Can't believe I forgot Blue Cheer!
I'll definitely add some of those !
I've got 1 Aerosmith album in there, Toys In The Attic, it comes up in lists a lot. Any others 'essential' ?


Edited by Kingcrimsonprog - 12 May 2012 at 11:13am

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingcrimsonprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 11:14am
Originally posted by Diogenes Diogenes wrote:

Holy hell that's a big list.  There's no way I can give enough suggestions, especially because you only listed the album names and not the bands (not to criticize-I wouldn't be bothered to do 1/3 of what you have), but here's what I've got (and sorry if I missed something that's already on there):

-I would try to put a Devin Townsend band album on there
-Technical death metal should be given its dues.  Suffocation, Gorguts, and the more modern stuff as well.
-It's technically an EP but I would include Morbid Tales. 
-Some Euro power metal is needed.

And I would look for albums by bands that are redundant, even though they're influential.  For example, do the first 3 Morbid Angel albums, both Keeper of the Seven Keys albums, 2 Lamb of God albums, etc. really need to be on there, when just one of them can make their point?  If you're going to do any swapping, I would start by looking into this.


What's the most famous Suffocation album ?
...are Nile and Krytopsy in that bracket too ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingcrimsonprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 11:16am
Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

I think its a good work so far. My personal suggestions from the genres I know best would be:

For power metal:

Gamma Ray - Land of the Free. Kai Hansen is widely considered the godfather of power metal so although you have Keepers I & II in there I think at least one Gamma Ray is needed. By the way, Helloween is spelt wrong on both entries. Needs an extra 'l' Wink


Also a total lack of Blind Guardian. 


For folk metal:

If I'm honest, not the best represented genre. Skyclad is a good choice although that album is apparently more like thrash metal with folk influences. Turisas Are one of the biggest acts so I approve that one. Alestorm a bit iffy, great album but wouldn't be my first choice. I'd say it needs some Cruachan in there. Either of these should do, the first because it's a very early folk metal release and the second because it's still the best folk metal release I've ever heard.


Some Аркона wouldn't go amiss either.


And although I'm not really big on either band, Moonsorrow, Eluveitie and Korpiklaani are some of the biggest names of the style.

Symphonic Metal:

Two great choices. Needs more. I recommend:


And I think Therion should have at least one album in there. Most likely this one, their first symphonic metal album:



Oh, awesome.
I love how helpful everyone on this site is.
Most metal sites are nothing but arguing jerks and deliberate irrelevant trolls.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diogenes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 11:36am
Originally posted by Kingcrimsonprog Kingcrimsonprog wrote:

Originally posted by Diogenes Diogenes wrote:

Holy hell that's a big list.  There's no way I can give enough suggestions, especially because you only listed the album names and not the bands (not to criticize-I wouldn't be bothered to do 1/3 of what you have), but here's what I've got (and sorry if I missed something that's already on there):

-I would try to put a Devin Townsend band album on there
-Technical death metal should be given its dues.  Suffocation, Gorguts, and the more modern stuff as well.
-It's technically an EP but I would include Morbid Tales. 
-Some Euro power metal is needed.

And I would look for albums by bands that are redundant, even though they're influential.  For example, do the first 3 Morbid Angel albums, both Keeper of the Seven Keys albums, 2 Lamb of God albums, etc. really need to be on there, when just one of them can make their point?  If you're going to do any swapping, I would start by looking into this.


What's the most famous Suffocation album ?
...are Nile and Krytopsy in that bracket too ?


I don't know about most famous, but their debut Effigy of the Forgotten was hugely influential on all branches of death metal at the time it was released.  Pierced from Within is where they really perfected their style though, and it's probably their best.  Can't go wrong with either one IMO.

Nile and Cryptopsy, absolutely.  Just make sure it's an early Cryptopsy album!  Oh, and again, GORGUTS.

Oh!  How could I forget?  Atheist and Cynic need to be on there too. 


Edited by Diogenes - 12 May 2012 at 11:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Time Signature Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 1:13pm
Perhaps of the more obscure kind, but Brats' 1980 is quite something, and I'd put it on the list. Also Cynic's Focus and Atheist's Unquestionable Presence are, in my opinion, some of the best prog extreme metal albums out there, so I'd put them on the list, too. I'd probably also put Candlemass' first album on the list as it is seminal in epic doom metal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingcrimsonprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 3:26pm
OK.

Thus far I have got it to 350.

I added a lot of your suggestions for technical death, folk, symphonic & doom metal albums, as well as some pre-metl stuff too.

I also added in a few emo albums I thought likely were necessary too.

..and I shuffled the order around too.

Starts with pre-metal, ends with Djent... which kind of makes sense. the middle is still a bit fuzzy... maybe all the punk stuff should go after pre-metal but before metal.

Anyway, here's what I've got so far (+many thanks)

http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/list-of-albums-that-you-need-to-have-heard-to-have-a-full-and-comprehensive-understanding-of-metal-music/


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by Kingcrimsonprog Kingcrimsonprog wrote:

Originally posted by Colt Colt wrote:

I applaud the effort, this is a tough ask.

Personally, a couple of major errors and omissions.

The Metal genre is far too diverse to allow the luxury of multiple entries for most artists. Although I can see the need for some. 

Only  6 NWoBHM bands? The bands chosen dont represent the diversity of the time sufficiently. 

Please excuse me if these bands are included and I have missed them but these are a must include IMO. (off the top of my head)

Nazareth, UFO, Blue Cheer, Spooky Tooth, Budgie, Aerosmith,The Kinks, Pentagram, Slade, The Sweet, Steppenwolf.

Obviously, open to debate.




Oh, some nice ideas there. Can't believe I forgot Blue Cheer!
I'll definitely add some of those !
I've got 1 Aerosmith album in there, Toys In The Attic, it comes up in lists a lot. Any others 'essential' ?
 
"Toys in the Attic" is a good choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diogenes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by Kingcrimsonprog Kingcrimsonprog wrote:

OK.

Thus far I have got it to 350.

I added a lot of your suggestions for technical death, folk, symphonic & doom metal albums, as well as some pre-metl stuff too.

I also added in a few emo albums I thought likely were necessary too.

..and I shuffled the order around too.

Starts with pre-metal, ends with Djent... which kind of makes sense. the middle is still a bit fuzzy... maybe all the punk stuff should go after pre-metal but before metal.

Anyway, here's what I've got so far (+many thanks)

http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/list-of-albums-that-you-need-to-have-heard-to-have-a-full-and-comprehensive-understanding-of-metal-music/



Make sure you at least listen to our suggestions first.  This is your list, after all. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingcrimsonprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by Diogenes Diogenes wrote:

Originally posted by Kingcrimsonprog Kingcrimsonprog wrote:

OK.

Thus far I have got it to 350.

I added a lot of your suggestions for technical death, folk, symphonic & doom metal albums, as well as some pre-metl stuff too.

I also added in a few emo albums I thought likely were necessary too.

..and I shuffled the order around too.

Starts with pre-metal, ends with Djent... which kind of makes sense. the middle is still a bit fuzzy... maybe all the punk stuff should go after pre-metal but before metal.

Anyway, here's what I've got so far (+many thanks)

http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/list-of-albums-that-you-need-to-have-heard-to-have-a-full-and-comprehensive-understanding-of-metal-music/



Make sure you at least listen to our suggestions first.  This is your list, after all. Thumbs Up


Yeah, but its not a list of things I think are good, its a list of things that are demonstrably influential to other artists or definitive of scenes.

One day I'll know everything in it, but at the minute the list is aspirational / for information purposes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IMPF2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 8:32pm
Please don't be offended when I say this, but [spoiler]That list is horrible[/spoiler]
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