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dtguitarfan 
MMA Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 19 May 2012 Location: Chattanooga, TN Status: Offline Points: 481 |
 Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 12:15pm |
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How can you teach morality without dogma? There is no reason to be moral without dogma, except that with governmental law it becomes an issue of the preservation of self.
And yes, Darwinists must have faith as well. If you believe that billions of years ago all matter compacted into a ball and then exploded and this caused the processes which eventually resulted in life, but you cannot explain where that matter came from, and cannot explain the astoundingly low mathematical chances that everything would be just right in order to cause this, you are also living by faith. |
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UMUR
MMA Special Collaborator
Errors & Omissions Team / Retired Admin Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 18121 |
Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 1:40am |
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[QUOTE=Wilytank]
[QUOTE=Skwid]
 Hear, hear
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IMPF2112
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: 24 Mar 2012 Status: Offline Points: 1386 |
Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 8:20pm |
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Wilytank
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 24 Mar 2011 Location: Pencil-vainea Status: Offline Points: 4028 |
Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 8:05pm |
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IMPF2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2012 Status: Offline Points: 1386 |
Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 8:02pm |
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>All religions
>That includes Darwinists lol what
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J-Man
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Philadelphia,PA Status: Offline Points: 7032 |
Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 7:44pm |
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Darwinists?  Accepting the theory of evolution does not make you a religious person, Geoff....and that's not necessarily true. I will teach my children what I believe in (kindness, compassion, skepticism, scientific thought, etc), but I am not in any way forcing them to adhere to my beliefs. Do you not see how that is different than telling your children "here is what I believe, and if you disagree with me, you will be going to hell."? That is an inherently harmful position to put children into. |
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Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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Wilytank
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 24 Mar 2011 Location: Pencil-vainea Status: Offline Points: 4028 |
Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 7:19pm |
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bartosso
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Location: coffin on Io Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 7:08pm |
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Well, the point is we're talking two different things here while you, correct me if I'm wrong, see that as a whole. These two things I'm talking about here are: 1) morality 2) dogma. I mean, atheism is by definition devoid of dogma. It's not a religion or even a real ideology. Atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. Anyway, by indoctrination I understand putting religious dogma into the heads of children. Children cannot decide for themselves and they are "programmed", through the process of evolution, to take everything their parents say as an indisputable truth. So they learn about God and Jesus, about heaven and most notably hell, the place they go to if their lives are full of sin (I'm not going to elaborate on why morality based on fear is a bad thing, that's another story for another discussion). Now that's where that aforementioned division steps in. You can't make your kids Christian without combining dogma and christian morality together. Their morality is based on dogma, that heaven/hell dualism defines their approach to what is good and bad. Many Christians claim that Christianity has exclusive rights to morality which is just not true. They tend to overlook the fact that respecting animal rights, equality of women, respect for nature and ecology are all fruits of moral philosophy called ethics and it has very little basis in religion. My point is that atheists, whatever kind of people they are, teach their children that dogma doesn't exist, in other words they teach to be objective. The only thing they put into their heads (or at least they should) is morality, yet unrestrained by dogma.
Edited by bartosso - 12 Nov 2012 at 7:14pm |
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dtguitarfan
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 19 May 2012 Location: Chattanooga, TN Status: Offline Points: 481 |
Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 5:04pm |
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The point is that everyone teaches their children what they believe in. Some are more constructive than others - using reason and logic to support those things that they believe in, and some are just repeating back what they have been taught as children without having ever developed an understanding of why they believe it, it is true. All religions have reasonable and unreasonable people in them. That includes Darwinists....
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J-Man
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Philadelphia,PA Status: Offline Points: 7032 |
Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 2:43pm |
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^
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Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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UMUR
MMA Special Collaborator
Errors & Omissions Team / Retired Admin Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 18121 |
Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 2:42pm |
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...well not necessarily. I�ve chosen not to babtize my children, so they can make their own choice when they are old enough. I�m honest when they ask me if I think God exists and says no, but I also always tell them that there are people who believe in God and that they should make up their own mind if that�s something they want to believe in (I also read the bible to them for educational purposes). I�ll be honest and say that I would be disappointed if they chose to believe in God, but I�ll respect whatever choice they make and try not to make a fuzz about it. I think there is a big difference between indoctrination and giving your children a choice to believe in what they think is right, when they are old enough to make such a choice.
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J-Man
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Philadelphia,PA Status: Offline Points: 7032 |
Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 2:37pm |
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No we don't, Geoff. I've never heard an atheist instruct their kids to blindly adhere to a set of beliefs at the expense of burning in hell for eternity. Teaching your kids to be compassionate people, use critical thinking, and treat others with respect is not indoctrination. |
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Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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dtguitarfan
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 19 May 2012 Location: Chattanooga, TN Status: Offline Points: 481 |
Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 2:20pm |
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It it illogical to take offense to the indoctrination of children - what you really are objecting to is that children are being indoctrinated with beliefs you don't agree with. Atheists indoctrinate their children just the same as anybody else. |
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IMPF2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2012 Status: Offline Points: 1386 |
Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 2:03pm |
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Amen to that!
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bartosso
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Location: coffin on Io Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 5:25am |
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 One of the worst things about religion - indoctrination of children.
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Wilytank
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 24 Mar 2011 Location: Pencil-vainea Status: Offline Points: 4028 |
Posted: 12 Aug 2012 at 6:57am |
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bartosso
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Location: coffin on Io Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
Posted: 12 Aug 2012 at 4:27am |
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Time Signature
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 04 Apr 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 7690 |
Posted: 14 Jun 2012 at 11:13am |
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The Westboro Baptist Church, like so many other organizations of the same ilk, are just a bunch of clowns.
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dtguitarfan
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 19 May 2012 Location: Chattanooga, TN Status: Offline Points: 481 |
Posted: 14 Jun 2012 at 5:47am |
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I think the Westboro Baptist movement is missing the whole point of their religion. Jesus said that the greatest commandment is to love God, and the second greatest is to love your neighbor. I didn't hear him say "hate those gays" anywhere in there....
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gav1230
Forum Newbie 
Joined: 13 Jun 2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6 |
Posted: 13 Jun 2012 at 11:23pm |
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They say god hates us for tolerating homosexuality, so I say we ship them all to Uganda. After all it's a christian "paradise" where being gay isn't tolerated.
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"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"
-Che Gueverra |
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Your thoughts on the Westboro Baptist Church
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Skwid wrote: