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Hard Rock - WE NEED YOUR HELP

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Time Signature Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 4:50pm
I agree.

I don't think there will be anymore expansions in the "softer-than-metal" direction. Hard rock intertwined with metal and often the two overlap, which is why the Hard Rock category was introduced. I personally think that alternative rock would be too far from metal, and it would allow for the addition of clearly non-metal bands like The Cure, U2, Saybia, Suede and whatnot - it would, however, be perfect material for a Rock Music Archives.

I do not think that any of the hard rock additions made so far are that problematic - controversial, perhaps, but not out of place on a metal site. That's just my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bonnek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by cannon cannon wrote:


Is a few comments from one collab that hardly contributes to the site going sway the admin. I hope not.


huh? do opinions get more validity with the amount of work or posts you make?

I've done my thing. I find Nirvana in hard rock absurd, as well as having Nirvana and Rush in one place.
If you all think that that is just fine then I'm wrong, or at least biased by what the press in my county sees as hard rock. Big deal.
And I gave no opinion on Pearl Jam whatsoever, I don't even have one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andyman1125 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 5:05pm
Yea Nirvana in Hard Rock is a bit iffy IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Colt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 1:16am

At this stage in the site's development there is not a precise fit for Nirvana.

IMO they are not Alt.Metal and their music also contrasted that of traditional Hard Rock.

However, I can remember the stir they made in the music scene at the time, I can remember Metal Hammer changing forever following the release of "Nevermind" There were pages and pages dedicated to them.

Let me state again - Metal Hammer!

This site is called Metal Music ARCHIVES.

Nirvana influenced so many metal bands, they have to be here. The perfect placement will come later.

"Rome was not built in one day" John Heywood



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 2:13am
I agree that Nirvana as hard rock isn't exactly accurate for me, but I can't say that they shouldn't be here at all, for reasons pointed out above. To me Nirvana is the sort of act that would be a fit for a theoretical 'metal related' sub, which to me implies not metal (or hard rock) themselves, but too important to not be listed at all. Not sure if there has ever been thoughts of MMA having a metal related sub like PA has prog related (IMO it could potentially be a minefield if we did), but IMO that's the best way for an act such as Nirvana to fit on a metal site. My pennies worth, anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Certif1ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 2:52am
Originally posted by bonnek bonnek wrote:


Originally posted by cannon cannon wrote:

Is a few comments from one collab that hardly contributes to the site going sway the admin. I hope not.
huh? do opinions get more validity with the amount of work or posts you make?


Of course not - Phil is just being a rude bastard again. Ignore him - I do!

Originally posted by Stooge Stooge wrote:

Didn't Motorhead have strong associations with the punk scene back in their earlier years?


Yes - they gigged heavily, played and recorded with the Damned and the various bands that came from the Chiswick stables. The Damned released the first "punk" album in the UK, "Neat, Neat, Neat" - and it's hard to tell the difference between that album and Hard or Indie Rock in places.

Together, Motordamned released a cover of The Sweet's "Ballroom Blitz".



Originally posted by Andyman1125 Andyman1125 wrote:

As many of you may have noticed we have welcomed a new sub-genre into the MMA family of metal - Hard Rock! As many of the artists here on MMA filed under various sub-genres (most notable Alt. and Proto metal) would be a much better fit in Hard Rock, the collaborator teams would like to implore the members of MMA to help us out.

So, if you know of or see an artist on MMA that you think would fit better in Hard Rock, please post in this thread!


The line is a very difficult one - in many bands' cases it could be that certain albums are Hard Rock rather than Proto Metal, for example - and on many albums, there will be a mix of Proto and Hard Rock.

In the latter case, I'd suggest leaving the album in Proto, even if there are only 2 or 3 Proto Metal songs - e.g. Dust.

NWoBHM is a special case - it was never a style, it was a "movement" comprising many styles, so there are many bands which would arguably be better described as Hard Rock, who are NWoBHM just for being in the right place at the right time - nothing to do with the sound or style.


The guideline I would offer is that;
- Hard Rock is more noticeably based on Blues ,so there will be 12-bar patterns and standard pentatonic licks which are obvious, classic examples being AC/DC's "The Jack" and "The Rocker".

- Heavy Psych, in which the riffs will not be sharp and clear, but fuzzy and slurry, with the trademark pentatonic soloing of that genre which may go off the beaten track somewhat, but will bear all the hallmarks of improvisation rather than a considered solo.


This Hard Rock genre is a great idea, but I can see the rows already...

That said, all suggestions should be considered on their own merits, and not dismissed as dumb, since everyone has an opinion on this matter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 3:04am
Originally posted by bonnek bonnek wrote:

Originally posted by cannon cannon wrote:


Is a few comments from one collab that hardly contributes to the site going sway the admin. I hope not.


huh? do opinions get more validity with the amount of work or posts you make?

I've done my thing. I find Nirvana in hard rock absurd, as well as having Nirvana and Rush in one place.
If you all think that that is just fine then I'm wrong, or at least biased by what the press in my county sees as hard rock. Big deal.
And I gave no opinion on Pearl Jam whatsoever, I don't even have one.
 
My apologies. Completely uncalled for. Totally out of line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 3:14am
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by bonnek bonnek wrote:


Originally posted by cannon cannon wrote:

Is a few comments from one collab that hardly contributes to the site going sway the admin. I hope not.
huh? do opinions get more validity with the amount of work or posts you make?


Of course not - Phil is just being a rude bastard again. Ignore him - I do!



I ignored you and you could handle it. LOL Are you trolling again?








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 3:23am
Please keep ignoring each otherStern Smile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 3:30am
I couldn't agree more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bonnek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 6:35am

Yes I will ignore everyone Smile

Except this maybe, which I find a valid idea, Metal-related might be quite a small sub but it could be a relevant thing to have..

Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

I agree that Nirvana as hard rock isn't exactly accurate for me, but I can't say that they shouldn't be here at all, for reasons pointed out above. To me Nirvana is the sort of act that would be a fit for a theoretical 'metal related' sub, which to me implies not metal (or hard rock) themselves, but too important to not be listed at all. Not sure if there has ever been thoughts of MMA having a metal related sub like PA has prog related (IMO it could potentially be a minefield if we did), but IMO that's the best way for an act such as Nirvana to fit on a metal site. My pennies worth, anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 6:54am
The prog-related sub-genre on PA has always caused a lot of trouble and grief. Im not sure I like the idea of copying that model.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bonnek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 7:33am

I'm sure you can do better Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tupan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 9:14pm
Mostly of the Queen albums labeled as Non-metal shoud be moved to Hard Rock.

Examples: The Works, Innuendo, Made in Heaven.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Time Signature Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2011 at 5:42am
I agree on "Innuendo", but I am not sure about "The Works" and I haven't heard "Made In Heaven".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tupan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2011 at 7:38am
From The Works:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zdunne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2011 at 5:30pm
Quote
Mostly of the Queen albums labeled as Non-metal shoud be moved to Hard Rock.

Examples: The Works, Innuendo, Made in Heaven.


It could be argued that the three Aerosmith albums under Non Metal fit this argument as well though others may disagree with me on that (well at least Nine Lives and Honkin on Bobo, Just Push Play is a bad pop album in my opinion with only a few good tracks foreshadowing Tyler's descent into Idolitis).

Anyway, as far as the broad definition of the Hard Rock category, I understand that further expansion might erode the site at this point as it is a metal site though one could argue that a Metal-Related Punk category could exist for bands like the Misfits, Bad Brains, Pennywise (who I always thought had some thrash characteristics), Offspring (early), the Ramones (pioneers who influenced both punk and metal) and others for bands that are decidedly Punk (not crossover thrash or alt metal) but have enough appeal to Metal fans to warrant being on a Metal site but I feel doing so would hurt the site not help as such suggestions would get heat from the Metal community even for the Hard Rock category (as some debates are causing now).  Even our sister site Jazz Music Archives has seen some debates under what to include because they feel they need establish credibility as a jazz site and not just as a subsite of a prog site.


Edited by zdunne - 24 Sep 2011 at 5:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tupan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2011 at 5:33pm
^But I 'll not changemy opinions about Queen. They are THE hard rock band.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balthamel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2011 at 8:05am
a silly question from me ( i don't know where to adress this but anyhow), but how is Innuendo by Queen not able to rate or not a metal/hard rock album when the title track is one of the heavyest songs they have,...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2011 at 3:27pm
Probably because an album needs to be predominantly metal (or hard rock) to be labeled as such.
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