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Time Signature
MMA Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 04 Apr 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 7690 |
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What happened?
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Raff
Forum Senior Member Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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OK guys, I've seen the review, and promptly PM'd Ovidiu, asking him to remove the review and repost it after the album's official release. If he doesn't, I'm going to delete the whole album entry (since here we can). We have to be very careful with high-profile releases like this one, and possibly avoid entering them in the DB before the official release date. Remember what happened on PA every time a well-known band released an album?
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UMUR
MMA Special Collaborator Errors & Omissions Team / Retired Admin Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 18198 |
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No we do not endorse illigal download, and until the official release date the review should be removed, unless of course, the reviewer have a promo copy.
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progshine
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 23 May 2010 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 513 |
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And... the official date is August 16, we should encourage illegal download? Cause is kinda obvious that this is not an official release.
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Pekka
MMA Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 26 Mar 2010 Location: Helsinki Status: Offline Points: 1358 |
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http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/the-final-frontier--review.aspx?id=219027
I don't believe he has heard the album. I could complain about the writing style as well, could use a bit of editing...
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UMUR
MMA Special Collaborator Errors & Omissions Team / Retired Admin Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 18198 |
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Maybe a review watchdog or two might be the solution. I�m not against that. As long as enthusiastic members are treated with respect. Guided and not scolded |
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Raff
Forum Senior Member Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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Unfortunately, PA gained a bad reputation in the prog world because of those unedited reviews. I believe ProgEars adopted the best solution: they have a person who is in charge of editing the reviews submitted by the site members. On a related note, I don't think it's a question of being a native speaker or not, or at least not always. Neither you nor I are (nor is Kim, to name another), and yet we write much better reviews that many native speakers who ignore the rules of punctuation and spelling.
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UMUR
MMA Special Collaborator Errors & Omissions Team / Retired Admin Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 18198 |
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I�m biased about it really! The very concept of MMA and PA is that everyone are allowed to post reviews and not allowing "certain" people to write reviews seems a bit hostile to me and goes against the spirit of the concept. On the other hand there are some reviews so badly written or auto-translated that no one but the reviewer himself/ herself is able to get anything out of them and those reviews might actually be harmful to the site(s). So are we going to be harder on the reviewers who don�t write understandable English ( the really badly written ones) here on MMA than they are on PA?
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Raff
Forum Senior Member Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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Perhaps the people at PA should be told about that, but I'm not going to do it.
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rushfan4
MMA Special Collaborator Errors and Omissions Team Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 7485 |
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The DT punctuation one. I kept looking for that on the MMA front page and couldn't figure out why I couldn't see it, but I see now that you say PA's front page. I suppose it is only a matter of time before it finds the MMA front page.
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Raff
Forum Senior Member Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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It does for me, and I'm not even a member anymore (deleted my membership a few days ago - don't like cliques). Anyway, if you go on the ProgEars homepage, you'll see the thread- it's the first in the list as to now.
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rushfan4
MMA Special Collaborator Errors and Omissions Team Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 7485 |
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link didn't work for me.
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Raff
Forum Senior Member Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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Just found this on the ProgressiveEars forum:
http://www.progressiveears.com/forums/thread.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=121186&posttime=7%2F14%2F2010+2%3A17%3A42+PM&private= The review in question is now on PA's front page. This is one of the reasons why we should pay a lot of attention to anything that is published here. People have eyes, and will comment on what they find around the web. Edited by Raff - 14 Jul 2010 at 4:27pm |
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Raff
Forum Senior Member Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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Thank you! You know, it's easy to bash using four-letter words or their thinly-veiled surrogates - much less so to try and find something positive to say in order to avoid discouraging the musicians. Unless we're talking about really successful acts (like Metallica or Iron Maiden, for instance), those people have to hold day jobs in order to be able to play and record their music, and I believe we should at least respect the effort behind every release of this kind, even if we hate every minute of it.
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Time Signature
MMA Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 04 Apr 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 7690 |
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Raff, I really love these expressions "the biggest flaw for the less than successful nature of this disc", "he album�s ill-judged mix", "mercifully, the band avoided overstretching themselves", "what is meant as the disc�s highlight", "somewhat uncomfortable listening on account of its amateurish sound", and "it is to be hoped that, for any future efforts, the band will try to get
a better producer, and also tighten up on the compositional aspect"... that's a really classy way of saying "this shit fails" ;-) I wish I had the ability to do bashing with such style and class ;-)
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Raff
Forum Senior Member Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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Great posts, Jonas and Kim! I agree 100% with you on the difficulty of writing a 'good' 1-star review. I have written only three for PA, and all of them were of albums by bands I love (Deep Purple and Blue Oyster Cult). When I started writing for ProgressoR, I had to tackle really bad albums from completely unknown quantities, and that was a challenge. You have to straddle that fine line between clearly stating that the album is not up to scratch (and that's an understatement) and trying to be constructive - such as pointing out that the album in question might indeed appeal to someone. This is one of my most negative reviews ever (the band is prog-metal, though I don't believe they are on MMA yet):
http://www.progressor.net/review/eoi_2009.html |
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Time Signature
MMA Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 04 Apr 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 7690 |
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I think that if you think something is shit, you should be allowed to say so. When it's about the music, I don't see the problem, because a review really just says something about yourself and your taste than about the music itself.
It's more reviews that attack groups of people or individuals because of sexuality, ethnicity, religion and whatever (like that review that attacked both Rob Halford as a person for his sexual orientation), because then it's not about the music - then its personal, and then its offensive. Also "this is crap because the the sound production is awful and the songs are too boring and formulaic" is much more informative than "this is crap because the singer i gay and the drummer is black" (which just informs us that the writer of the review is a racist homophobic C.P.) I agree that writing a good and sober 1 star review can be very difficult, and that reviews that go beyond "this-sucks" or "this-is-crap" are more interesting to read (I especially enjoy negative reviews that make a lot of use of creative similes and metaphors - even if its a review that bashes one of my favorite artists). I don't mind "the music on this album is rubbish" reviews, but I don't like reviews that personally attack the artists (no matter how much they actually suck) and I don't like reviews that attack people who like or don't like that artist (I don't mind if reviews criticize, or agree with, the general attitude towards the release in question; those can actually become quite interesting to read). Edited by Time Signature - 04 Jul 2010 at 8:58am |
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UMUR
MMA Special Collaborator Errors & Omissions Team / Retired Admin Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 18198 |
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^ You�re right about that. Well I�m not holier than thou. I�ve broken the guidelines on occasion and taken the inevitable beating afterwards. I think I�ve learned my lessons though. It�s mostly the 1 star reviews that pose problems. A good 1 star review is extremely hard to write and actually requires more skill than writing 5 star reviews. Maintaining a respectful approach to something that you ultimately find annoying and a terrible listen, is a study in self-control. Not many master this skill and that�s why this thread is important. With a little guidance from an admin, some of those reviews can actually be re-written and become valuable assets to the site. 1 star reviews are as important to the site as the 5 star reviews are. They bring perspective.
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Raff
Forum Senior Member Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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Yes, I think it would be better to have the rules appear right under the review box, so that no one can claim they are not easily available to would-be reviewers. Not that having the guidelines so readily visible has ever stopped anyone from violating them...
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progshine
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 23 May 2010 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 513 |
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I think Max was talking about the text that appears under the review box on PA and do the same here on MMA, so everyone can see what's going on before post the reviewm cause let's just agree, nobody will look for this guidelines on Forum before post a review
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