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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ultimate Timeline of METAL MUSIC Milestone Moments
    Posted: 18 Jan 2020 at 9:11am
^ None of her previous albums are metal. The one before Hiss Spun may have some elements. Hiss Spun is the only metal album she's made. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2020 at 7:19am
^ thanks Nicole Wink

i have gotten many great suggestions here and on RYM.

still checking out some of the suggestions.

Adam, spinning Hiss Spun right now. Yeah, different for doom metal for sure however i'm seeing some of her previous albums are labeled doom metal as well. Will look in to it. Thanks Approve

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 666sharon666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2020 at 6:32am
Great work Mike. Clap

I'll have a think about any that may fit here, but for now I'll second Ulver's debut. 

Of course black metal is really quite diverse with a lot of innovation happening and not necessarily in the best known acts that you can easily do a list like this that was just black metal specific. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2020 at 11:47pm
I think of new suggestions all the time for this, but although you have the Nightwish debut you should also consider the admittedly divisive Imaginaerum. This is the most unique record in their discography and one of the most unique symphonic metal albums ever made. It has much more going on in it than the genres listed on RYM would suggest: symphonic, celtic folk, power metal, prog (I'd even argue avant as well sometimes), cabaret, jazz...it's so unlike anything else in the genre. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2020 at 11:31pm
Here's another you you might take a look into. I can't say I've heard an album quite like this one from anyone else: Chelsea Wolfe - Hiss Spun. 

Metal is not her usual sound as she genre hops. But in 2017 she released this one: http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/album/chelsea-wolfe/hiss-spun

This is one of those releases that had the RYM genre voting crowd very torn over what it actually was. But it's mostly been settled as a doom metal album. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2020 at 11:28pm
I hear you mate. With Ulver it just suddenly struck me that I'd suggested Myrkur to you when the idea can actually be found as far back as the Ulver debut. Not to the extent that Myrkur does but if clean vocal black metal becomes more of a thing (and I genuinely believe it could do) then that first track is, unless I hear an earlier example, the roots of it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2020 at 4:58pm
^ i was actually considering debut Ulver. As far as i know that was the first black metal album to use choral chants. Was gonna do some research on this one before adding but it's a pretty unique album. I just don't want it to get to the point where i add every classic album. Gotta draw the line somewhere :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2020 at 8:19am
That's fair Mike. Gamma Ray is probably best described as continuing on from where Helloween lost their way. Tongue

For black metal, you might also consider the debut Ulver album. Everything I spoke of for Myrkur can actually be traced back to that, especially the opening track which may be the first example of a black metal track with clean vocals. 



You might also cover USPM a little more. You have some proggy types but that's not extensive enough. Sirens by Savatage is often credited as the first USPM album and would be a good pick, with other key early releases in its history being Warlord's Deliver US EP and Jag Panzer and Omen's debuts. Bands like Riot and Iced Earth took it even further in the late 80's/early 90's respectively. 

Here is a great link about USPM that you will probably find more useful than I can convey here: https://rideintoglory.com/marcos-guide-to-uspm/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2020 at 7:28am
OK. You convinced me. I'll add a Blind Guardian album. Personally it's their ballads i don't like. I much prefer Helloween :D Speaking of which i watch some footage of their tour from last year and damn Kiske can still sing like a mutha fucker despite porking out over the years. Great idea to have both vocalists share the limelight. Gamma Ray, no. THis isn't an exhaustive list. Just one that represents some sort of innovation in the metal universe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2020 at 1:20am
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Helloween may have beat them to playing power metal but Blind Guardian's brand of power metal is quite different to that of Helloween. Especially between 1990-1995. While Helloween certainly have harder albums, especially with Deris, and also started as speed metal it's not to the same extent as what Blind Guardian were doing. Sure, you could represent this harder brand of power metal with another Helloween album, perhaps Better Than Raw, but it's not as good a showcase as Somewhere Far Beyond. Helloween are the band that influenced what most Euro PM sounds like. Blind Guardian, along with Rage, influenced an entirely different niche that went on to spawn harder bands like Grave Digger (who did of course pre-date BG, but played heavy metal before '93), Rebellion, Persauder, Savage Circus and many others. 

To not include them does a disservice to and under-represents the whole genre. That's my final pitch to have them included and if you still don't think they should be mentioned then I'll say no more about it, but I think you're very wrong by excluding them from a project like this. 


So which Blind Guardian album would you consider a single moment when the band added something new to power metal? I know they added choirs and more epic classical elements on Tales From The Twilight World. They were certainly more progressive than Helloween.

The first two albums are obviously more speed metal. Tales From the Twilight World is their first power metal album but it still has speed metal elements. On Somewhere Far Beyond they refined this sound. However either would be an acceptable inclusion. As an aside they are also a good example of a metal act who knows how to do soft ballads right. 

You've also got to remember that Helloween's Keeper of the Seven Keys albums actually have a very old school sound very like trad heavy metal. They don't fully represent the refined genre of power metal any more than early Black Sabbath represents fully refined heavy metal. Helloween also drifted from what they'd created heavily through the remainder of Kiske's era. Some may call Pink Bubbles Go Ape power metal, but it's really only got a scant few elements and Chameleon is pretty laughable to even consider a metal album. It was only when Deris took over that they returned to power metal and produced anything that might be considered in the same harder power metal league as what Blind Guardian were doing. By that time Blind Guardian had released both Tales and Somewhere and further refined the genre as a whole along with its harder German sound. Of course in terms of refining a sound, you can't discount Gamma Ray either, although I don't personally consider them landmark until Kai Hansen became the lead vocalist for Land of the Free. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2020 at 6:03pm
@ Adam. Actually i already added Cruachan. Their first EP Celitca
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2020 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Helloween may have beat them to playing power metal but Blind Guardian's brand of power metal is quite different to that of Helloween. Especially between 1990-1995. While Helloween certainly have harder albums, especially with Deris, and also started as speed metal it's not to the same extent as what Blind Guardian were doing. Sure, you could represent this harder brand of power metal with another Helloween album, perhaps Better Than Raw, but it's not as good a showcase as Somewhere Far Beyond. Helloween are the band that influenced what most Euro PM sounds like. Blind Guardian, along with Rage, influenced an entirely different niche that went on to spawn harder bands like Grave Digger (who did of course pre-date BG, but played heavy metal before '93), Rebellion, Persauder, Savage Circus and many others. 

To not include them does a disservice to and under-represents the whole genre. That's my final pitch to have them included and if you still don't think they should be mentioned then I'll say no more about it, but I think you're very wrong by excluding them from a project like this. 


So which Blind Guardian album would you consider a single moment when the band added something new to power metal? I know they added choirs and more epic classical elements on Tales From The Twilight World. They were certainly more progressive than Helloween.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2020 at 4:06pm
^ i'll also consider BLind Guardian and other suggestions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2020 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Also what about Satori by Flower Travellin' Band from 1971? Surely a key release in spreading early metal to other countries (Japan in this case). Quite Sabbathy of course so might be too close in sound for what you're looking for, but personally I'd see it as a key release to cover how metal spread so early in its timeline. Doom metal can be heard stiring in this as much as in early Sabbath too. 

Speaking of Sabbath, your Paranoid entry has the first letter of the sentence missing. 


THat's a good suggestion. I'll probably add them! I'll fix the Sabbath mistake :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2020 at 4:02pm
Also what about Satori by Flower Travellin' Band from 1971? Surely a key release in spreading early metal to other countries (Japan in this case). Quite Sabbathy of course so might be too close in sound for what you're looking for, but personally I'd see it as a key release to cover how metal spread so early in its timeline. Doom metal can be heard stiring in this as much as in early Sabbath too. 

Speaking of Sabbath, your Paranoid entry has the first letter of the sentence missing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2020 at 9:26am
the main influence Machine Head had was making 99% of metal guitarists switch to EMG81 > tubescreamer > 5150

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2020 at 8:19am
Helloween may have beat them to playing power metal but Blind Guardian's brand of power metal is quite different to that of Helloween. Especially between 1990-1995. While Helloween certainly have harder albums, especially with Deris, and also started as speed metal it's not to the same extent as what Blind Guardian were doing. Sure, you could represent this harder brand of power metal with another Helloween album, perhaps Better Than Raw, but it's not as good a showcase as Somewhere Far Beyond. Helloween are the band that influenced what most Euro PM sounds like. Blind Guardian, along with Rage, influenced an entirely different niche that went on to spawn harder bands like Grave Digger (who did of course pre-date BG, but played heavy metal before '93), Rebellion, Persauder, Savage Circus and many others. 

To not include them does a disservice to and under-represents the whole genre. That's my final pitch to have them included and if you still don't think they should be mentioned then I'll say no more about it, but I think you're very wrong by excluding them from a project like this. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2020 at 7:36am
^ @ Adam, thanks for the suggestions! I considered Blind Guardian but Helloween beat them to the power metal thing. I can't include everyone only firsts and interesting unique examples. I own all Blind Guardian albums so i'm familiar with each album. Epica sounds like an interesting case.

I'll check into Cruachan (which i'm not so familiar with) and the last two you suggested, Adam. I'm sure there are many oddballs out there i've never encountered. I just thought of quite a few yesterday that i added myself!

I'll have to chew on all this later.

@Vim. I dunna, Cannibal Corpse may be the most popular death metal band but they don't have a single album that was unique really. They weren't the first death metal band and even the parental advisory first goes to 2 Live Crew not a metal band. Sepultura might be a good consideration. Burn Your Eyes wasn't even close to the first groove metal. Pantera wins that distinction hands down. I own most Machine Head albums and i don't find them innovative or unique but thankis for the suggestions!

Do keep em coming :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2020 at 1:00am
I'd also put forward Griseus by Aquilis (2011). Very unique black metal album.

And while I think about it, Myrkur would also be worth a mention. Possibly a controversial one among the purists out there but her largely clean vocal take on black metal is unusual. 


Edited by adg211288 - 16 Jan 2020 at 1:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2020 at 12:58am
If you want to expand on symphonic metal entries further a good one to include would be an Epica album. I'd recommend The Divine Conspiracy. Epica is probably the most major non black/death metal symphonic act taking the genre to more extreme and even progressive heights where most acts in the genre steadily get more commercially inclined. 
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