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Pekka 
MMA Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 26 Mar 2010 Location: Helsinki Status: Offline Points: 1356 |
 Posted: 24 Jan 2011 at 9:43am |
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Aren't you contradicting yourself there a bit, or don't you buy the MMA guideline of adding bands who have at least one definite metal album?
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 <- Click on this!
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CCVP
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 388 |
Posted: 24 Jan 2011 at 7:47am |
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Thrak and Power to Believe COULD be classified as such, specially the latter, but the one album that really makes a point for KC is Red and classify them as a metal band would be an unecessary strech of concepts IMO. It is better to leave them out of MMA.
more info @ http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=191
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Time Signature
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 04 Apr 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 7690 |
Posted: 24 Jan 2011 at 5:15am |
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Has King Crimson released an entire album which is hard rocking og metallish? (I've heard talk of Thrak being such an album, which I actually haven't heard myself).
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Certif1ed
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 29 Mar 2010 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 473 |
Posted: 24 Jan 2011 at 1:13am |
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It's hard to tell - I've actually seen people suggest Genesis as a proto metal band on other forums on the basis of that one song...
Can't really consider Morse - he's a bit late in the day for proto, while Crimson aren't (do you see what I did there?  ).Edited by Certif1ed - 24 Jan 2011 at 1:14am |
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J-Man
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Philadelphia,PA Status: Offline Points: 7032 |
Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 9:52pm |
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No, not your comment... this one: 
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Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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Andyman1125
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 15 Jan 2011 Location: Rhode Island Status: Offline Points: 2068 |
Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 9:46pm |
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I have no idea how that came about  I made a side comment that turned into some big hullabaloo
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J-Man
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Philadelphia,PA Status: Offline Points: 7032 |
Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 8:14pm |
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I'm not even that concerned about the Neal Morse thing... People will disagree with most anything. it's just the "since Neal Morse will be added, it'd be rhetorical exercise to add bands like Genesis" that irks me. Not true! Genesis never released a progressive metal album! |
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Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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Andyman1125
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 15 Jan 2011 Location: Rhode Island Status: Offline Points: 2068 |
Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 8:12pm |
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Yesssssss
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Andyman1125
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 15 Jan 2011 Location: Rhode Island Status: Offline Points: 2068 |
Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 8:11pm |
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I seem to have stirred up quite a bit of strife on MMA
 Obviously I support both of their inclusions And Caio, just accept it: Morse has released SOME metal. He may still be a symph/christian artist overall, but Sola Scriptura is 99% metal, and ? is 85% metal.
Edited by andyman1125 - 23 Jan 2011 at 8:11pm |
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J-Man
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Philadelphia,PA Status: Offline Points: 7032 |
Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 7:51pm |
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I'm sorry - that is one of The dumbest things I have read in MMA history.  We get it - you disagree with the Neal Morse addition - you've made that clear by now. Unfortunately for you, there are many more people that support his addition based on ? and Sola Scriptura - both of which are progressive metal (or very damn close). If you disagree with the addition, fine. You've made that more very clear, and comments like this are completely futile - Neal Morse will be added. There is admin approval for the addition, and I'm working on preparing a bio. Again, I highly recommend actually listening to the albums in question, or at least these songs: |
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Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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CCVP
Forum Senior Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 388 |
Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 7:36pm |
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LOL, u srs? If Morse gets added, adding bands such Genesis will be only a rhetorical excercise. |
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Triceratopsoil
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 17 Dec 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4197 |
Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 7:16pm |
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yeahhh if Genesis gets added to this site I will resign from my collab position
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Andyman1125
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 15 Jan 2011 Location: Rhode Island Status: Offline Points: 2068 |
Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 7:06pm |
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I mentioned The Knife purely in jest, I never considered actually suggesting them.
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Certif1ed
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 29 Mar 2010 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 473 |
Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 3:09pm |
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To be honest, I wouldn't even consider The Knife as proto - which is the Genesis example most people seem to give when suggesting them. The thing with Crimson, is that they wrote many songs which sound metal, as opposed to Genesis' occasional hard/heavy rock sound.
To me, the difference between the metal sound and the hard rock sound is the difference between Suicide by Dust and Warrior by Wishbone Ash.
Compare Thrak to any Genesis song, and that's what I mean.
I could get all analytical - but I think these examples speak volumes (and make for some great listening!).
The following are good examples of proto metal, IMHO;
The proto metal team currently have a very, very long list of proto metal bands to add - I'd be delighted to contibute to a thread on proto, including more examples of the real deal for you to enjoy! Edited by Certif1ed - 23 Jan 2011 at 3:14pm |
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Andyman1125
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 15 Jan 2011 Location: Rhode Island Status: Offline Points: 2068 |
Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 9:42am |
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Don't forget about the Knife. No like seriously, The Knife is so metal.
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Balthamel
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 26 Mar 2010 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 1336 |
Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 8:14am |
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i will also call the Musical Box by Genesis proto-heavy metal as well also parts of Dancing With the Moonlit Knight
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Andyman1125
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 15 Jan 2011 Location: Rhode Island Status: Offline Points: 2068 |
Posted: 22 Jan 2011 at 9:47pm |
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My point exactly. They would fit quite nicely. They would probably even fit into avant metal!
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Certif1ed
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 29 Mar 2010 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 473 |
Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 5:11am |
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Hey, I have no problems with rants - but I don't really get your point.
Leaving "influence" aside for a moment (you could argue that Van Halen or Faith no More were influenced by Soul music, and this would be more than valid reason to exclude Soul artists);
Isn't "21st Century Schizoid Man" (proto) metal enough?
What about the progressive metallic elements in "Red" or "Lark's Tongues"?
It's true that they had no 100% proto metal albums, but I think that if there's some there, and it's significant, then it's proto.
I think the main issue here isn't that Crimson didn't produce proto metal music - I think that they did, and the Youtubes posted above bear testament to this - but that they're better known for, ahem, other music - much of which puts a huge number of technical and progressive metal bands into the shade.
After all, Dust's early albums probably have 6-7 proto metal tracks on between them, but no-one complains about their inclusion.
It's the proto metal that counts - and "Suicide" kicks ass;
No-one has complained about The Sweet, MC5, Mountain, Aerosmith or Nightsun (another Progressive Rock band) - none of whom have 100% metal albums. It's proto-metal after all - and history IS important, as is influence, to a reasonable extent. It's all about context - or next we'll be purging 90% of NWoBHM (which few would consider "true" metal, but few know enough about the hundreds of bands in that category).
Why discount prog metal bands - is this out of convenience? Prog Metal is part of the Metal genre - the clue's in the name...
All I'm asking for is a little reasoning for why KC shouldn't be considered - why does it seem a stretch? Isn't "Thrak" a pure progressive metal track (never mind proto)?
Edited by Certif1ed - 20 Jan 2011 at 5:22am |
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Triceratopsoil
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 17 Dec 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4197 |
Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 2:20am |
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 p.s. I think you mean "Rober" Edited by Triceratopsoil - 20 Jan 2011 at 2:20am |
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The Angry Scotsman
MMA Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: 08 Aug 2010 Location: New Jersey, US Status: Offline Points: 1076 |
Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 1:02am |
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Love King Crimson, and I do think they had some impact on metal. But really, this seems like a huge stretch, even for proto metal.
Let's not repeat mistakes of PA, one being including bands we like! Hate being a stickler, but IMO we do need to a bit exclusive, as we see what happens when we allow to many borderline bands. Some sorta almost metal sounding songs, and some influence but really, they are prog rock and that's where they belong. A band claiming influence also should not warrant inclusion because influence does not equate to music. Tool claims them as a big influence, but that's prog metal/art rock whatever. Most "normal" metal bands I HIGHLY doubt claim KC as an influence. Elvis was a major (probably biggest) influence on Hendrix!Frank Zappa on SoaD Meshuggah and Slayer on Carpenter of Detones. So please, don't let the inspiration of a band sway your vote. We need to judge bands on their music, not history or inspiration etc Sorry for the rant, but I do not want a floodgate of PA proportions on here! All respect to Robert "God" Fripp of course!!! Edited by The Angry Scotsman - 20 Jan 2011 at 1:03am |
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Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer and Testament. The real Big Four of thrash metal!
Listen to doom metal, worship Satan |
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King Crimson for proto-metal?
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CCVP wrote: