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Debate: Satori by Flower Travellin' Band is metal

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Poll Question: Is Satori metal?
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adg211288 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adg211288 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

Would you call Black Sabbath heavy psych or proto-metal rather than Heavy Metal?

Black Sabbath actually were in Proto-Metal here for a long time, up until the cut off year. It was only when Proto-Metal got moved under Metal Related Genres that the then team allowed those albums to be moved to trad. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by 666sharon666 666sharon666 wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

it's not really a metal album in the traditional sense


I'd argue that a traditional sense for metal didn't exist in 1971.

70's heavy metal is actually a very small pool of artists unless you want to count groups like Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple who, while they may have been included in the fledgling heavy metal genre/scene then, are now widely considered 'just' hard rock bands.

Until the mid to late 70's there are actually very few groups that have a Heavy Metal tag either on RYM or here on MMA itself. From RYM's charts:

1970:

Black Sabbath - Paranoid
Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath
Sir Lord Baltimore - Kingdom Come

1971:

Black Sabbath - Master of Reality
Budgie - Budgie
Bang - Bang

1972:

Black Sabbath - Vol 4
Budgie - Squawk

1974:

Budgie - In For the Kill

1975:

Black Sabbath - Sabotage

That's literally just four bands and ten albums and all of them considered part hard rock. That's nowhere near enough to consider the heavy metal sound standardised.

'76 brings Judas Priest and Rainbow into the picture and this is our cut off year for Proto-Metal, so between them Rising and Sad Wings of Destiny could be seen as the first truly defining heavy metal albums, especially Sad Wings, which is the earliest heavy metal tagged album on RYM that doesn't have hard rock as a co-Primary.

This paves way for further bands in '77 such as Riot, Motörhead and Quartz, whose self-titled is the earliest release typically included as part of the NWoBHM. Personally I can't help but wonder if that's a little too early, but that's another debate.

Bearing this in mind, I don't think Satori should be judged by standards that only came to be years after its release. It needs to be judged as a contemporary of Black Sabbath, Budgie, Sir Lord Baltimore and Bang.

It may not be in line with the popular view, but I do think this album warrants Flower Travellin' Band being considered a fifth true early heavy metal act on MMA.


Well, i agree with most of what you have said but i think your first comment about 1971 having no true sense of traditional metal means that it can't be put into the same category as traditional metal that was developed later. ALthough i would classify Satori as heavy psych (a sub we will hopefull have someday) i just don't see them as "metal." I liked the previous method of categorizing all of the early 70s bands as proto-metal
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666sharon666 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 666sharon666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 3:14pm
That's not actually what I meant. Heavy Metal existed in an early form since 1970 and Black Sabbath's debut. But it takes a bit of time before any genre evolves to have a standardised sound. Take later metal genres like black metal for instance: You have to of course throw out most of the so called first wave because a lot of those bands had nothing to do with the actual genre of black metal, but those that did like Bathory were much more based in thrash metal than the standardised sound as popularised by the early Norwegian scene is. Mayhem themselves were much the same.

That doesn't mean those early releases don't deserve to be counted as the new fledgling genre by any means. It just means they still have pretty strong aspects of other styles, in the case of early heavy metal mainly meaning hard rock and heavy psych but also blues rock, which Black Sabbath certainly had aspects of. It really wasn't until Sad Wings of Destiny that any metal band really began to shake the hard rock roots off (and even then Judas Priest had more hard rock leaning albums after that point). For the black metal example, thrash metal files the role that hard rock does for heavy metal. For another example speed metal is to (Euro) power metal what hard rock is to early heavy metal. It's not simply coincidence that many of those early German power metal bands played speed metal on their earliest releases.

Back to topic: No one here is denying that Satori is heavy psych, just making a case that it's heavy psych and heavy metal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unitron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 3:44pm
If you think about it, psychedelic rock was one of heavy metal's biggest influences, so it makes sense that most early metal would also be psychedelic in parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 4:37pm
^ agreed, therefore we REALLY need a heavy psych to include those few early bands that were still in that world like Blue Cheer and Flower Travelin Band. 

As far as Van Halen goes, i think some of their albums should be METAL and not hard rock on here but i'm not too overly concerned about it actually. If Satori turns out to be hard rock or trad metal, whatever. They're still heavy psych to me :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheHeavyMetalCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2017 at 1:28am
I'm still not convinced that Satori isn't actually the first traditional doom metal album. The slow playing style and guitar techniques say doom more than heavy metal to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sisslith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 10:30am
Sooo traditional heavy metal until we have a heavy psych tag?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 666sharon666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 1:02am
Originally posted by Sisslith Sisslith wrote:

Sooo traditional heavy metal until we have a heavy psych tag?


That would defeat the purpose; if it goes to heavy metal it'll stay in heavy metal regardless of whether or not heavy psych gets added, since heavy psych will be a child sub of hard rock, which is where the album is now.

I'm still hoping the other admins will offer some input here, but regardless this doesn't have to be and shouldn't be a rushed decision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vim Fuego Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 1:06am
Sounds metal enough to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 666sharon666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 2:28pm
A long time in coming, but this was moved to Heavy Metal on MMA today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unitron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 2:31pm
^Great, it's about time! Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheHeavyMetalCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 2:51pm
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