Do you believe in God?

For me there is no god because i don't need one.

^ Ceiling Cat, and he's watching you doing that...

=F=

micky wrote: J-Man wrote: micky wrote: J-Man wrote: That's just it... there is likely to be some God somewhere out there... but your Gandhi quote summed it all up for me. I guess I'll try to live a few more years before I get too involved with this thread though... if you have some spare time.. and of course the inclination... try reading up on Hinduism.  Fascinating religion.. I've done reading mostly focused on Christianity and Islam (these both have wonderful histories), but I'll have to check out some books on Hinduism now that you mention it. I've watched a few programs about it on the history channel whenever I have 2 or 3 hours to kill, but I've never done any proper reading on that religion.... you've got that right Jeff... much like Christianity (in my eyes)... Islam is a beautiful and a fascinating religion... unfortunately corrupted ...or ...more accurately.. misinterpreted...by those who claim to be followers. Not that Hinduism doesn't have it's fanatics or wack-jobs... look at Nathuaram Godse. Though extremist fringes of the Hindu faith tend to be more extreme nationalists.. than religious extremists (then again with history of India..  that is two sides of the same coin)  one of the many things that really drew me to the Hindu faith was it's tolerance and acceptance of other faiths. I'm not a practicing Hindu per se (I do love my BBQ hahah)... but let's say that of core beliefs... they mirror mine to a T. definitely check it out Jeff.. a lot to love there... and a fascinating religion.. and also a VERY rich history.. as is the history of  India.

Thanks Micky. I might have to head to the library this weekend.... any recommendations?

I believe in a God as in eru or illuvatar...

J-Man wrote: That's just it... there is likely to be some God somewhere out there... but your Gandhi quote summed it all up for me. I guess I'll try to live a few more years before I get too involved with this thread though...

if you have some spare time.. and of course the inclination... try reading up on Hinduism.  Fascinating religion..

micky wrote: J-Man wrote: micky wrote: J-Man wrote: micky wrote: J-Man wrote: I guess I'm an atheist...  I "was" a Christian, but I have a really tough time believing any of it nowadays... everyone in my family is a Christian though, so I kinda have to go with the flow... yeah you sort of have to roll with the flow don't you... best to ride the church pew than fight with the parental/family units.  as far as faith... it is simply something you'll find.. or not find.  Life does have funny way of enhancing your faith.. or completely destroying it One of the things that contributed to my lack of religious beliefs (more than you might think, actually) is the entire "Santa Claus" thing. I remember when I was about 10 years old and one of my friends told me that Santa Claus wasn't real. I searched my entire house in search of presents wrapped in decorative paper, and when I found those presents I was a little devastated. I had believed in something that is so ridiculous and absurd wholeheartedly, only to find out that it's a lie. It seems silly to think that anyone would believe in such a thing, but if no one had ever told me that Santa doesn't exist, I (or anyone else) would still believe in Santa Claus to this day. Isn't religion the same way? that's really interesting Jeff... and you have a point.. 'Isn't religion the same way?' you ask.  Of course it is... it is ALL about faith. For many years as I said before I was agnositic..  I could deny the existance of God no more than I could accept God's existence and to be honest... I had more 'important' things in life to deal with than such nebulous questions.  As I've grown older.. seen a lot of things.. a lot of very bad things...horrible things..and  a lot of things that verge on miracles..  I finally decided to tackle my own personal beliefs, and found what my faith was. .and what I actually had faith IN.  Very true. I guess I'm agnostic similarly as you are, even though I've declared myself atheist. There is no way that we can prove that God exists or not until we die, but I choose not to believe in it. As I become more of a history geek, learning about religious wars and religions that make even less sense than the popular modern day ones, it all negatively impacts my faith in any form of religion. It seems to me that religion often presents these perfect ideological situations, but the religious wars (that still exist today) don't even follow any of the concepts of the reasons they are fighting in the first place! wow.. nice post.. and you touch on many things there.. not trying to convert you.. only engage you. Nice to discuss the subject without flames and grenades going off *ex-agnostic* I was in my youth.. but through my own personal hells.. the Gulf War, a real bout of Alcoholism, a personally destructive and unhappy marriage to a person completely unsuited to me and finally the implosion of that marriage, of which my beliefs contributed to at the end. I found my faith.  Though it is odd... it is my personal one.  I am a strong believer in the existence of God.. but not a Christian nor do I believe in the Bible as anything more than parable on how you should live your life..  put forth by those whose only concern.. was something more worldly and crass than your or my salvation (enough said on that).  But you don't shoot the corrupt messenger for the message. Honestly Jeff.. it is why I have come across as so condescending at times to some of our more strident.. and opinionated younger posters on the other forum and why I finally stayed away from those discussions.  Live a little bit.. then lecture those that have lived a life... about life.  As I said earlier Jeff and I really mean it.. and believe it..  as you grow older.. you will experience things that will shape your faith... either to find God ..as I did.. or not.  Unlike Santa..  there is no answer to be found in this lifetime..  it is all based upon faith.  I too am a history buff and know as you do the destructive impact of religion on world history..  between religion and nationalism (or both wearing the same dress) they have probably far more harm to the world than good.  However...  ask yourself Jeff.. do you blame God.. or question God for the ineptness.. the corruption of those who claim to follow or speak for God.  That is an answer one can only answer for himself..

That's just it... there is likely to be some God somewhere out there... but your Gandhi quote summed it all up for me. I guess I'll try to live a few more years before I get too involved with this thread though...

I really hate atheists that argue with me though if i invite them to church a simple yes or no is needed not an arguement about why my god is not worthy or some stuff like that I asume you guise actually are the oppisite and dont care of other peoples religions and dont mind going to a church

J-Man wrote: micky wrote: J-Man wrote: micky wrote: J-Man wrote: I guess I'm an atheist...  I "was" a Christian, but I have a really tough time believing any of it nowadays... everyone in my family is a Christian though, so I kinda have to go with the flow... yeah you sort of have to roll with the flow don't you... best to ride the church pew than fight with the parental/family units.  as far as faith... it is simply something you'll find.. or not find.  Life does have funny way of enhancing your faith.. or completely destroying it One of the things that contributed to my lack of religious beliefs (more than you might think, actually) is the entire "Santa Claus" thing. I remember when I was about 10 years old and one of my friends told me that Santa Claus wasn't real. I searched my entire house in search of presents wrapped in decorative paper, and when I found those presents I was a little devastated. I had believed in something that is so ridiculous and absurd wholeheartedly, only to find out that it's a lie. It seems silly to think that anyone would believe in such a thing, but if no one had ever told me that Santa doesn't exist, I (or anyone else) would still believe in Santa Claus to this day. Isn't religion the same way? that's really interesting Jeff... and you have a point.. 'Isn't religion the same way?' you ask.  Of course it is... it is ALL about faith. For many years as I said before I was agnositic..  I could deny the existance of God no more than I could accept God's existence and to be honest... I had more 'important' things in life to deal with than such nebulous questions.  As I've grown older.. seen a lot of things.. a lot of very bad things...horrible things..and  a lot of things that verge on miracles..  I finally decided to tackle my own personal beliefs, and found what my faith was. .and what I actually had faith IN.  Very true. I guess I'm agnostic similarly as you are, even though I've declared myself atheist. There is no way that we can prove that God exists or not until we die, but I choose not to believe in it. As I become more of a history geek, learning about religious wars and religions that make even less sense than the popular modern day ones, it all negatively impacts my faith in any form of religion. It seems to me that religion often presents these perfect ideological situations, but the religious wars (that still exist today) don't even follow any of the concepts of the reasons they are fighting in the first place!

wow.. nice post.. and you touch on many things there.. not trying to convert you.. only engage you. Nice to discuss the subject without flames and grenades going off

*ex-agnostic* I was in my youth.. but through my own personal hells.. the Gulf War, a real bout of Alcoholism, a personally destructive and unhappy marriage to a person completely unsuited to me and finally the implosion of that marriage, of which my beliefs contributed to at the end. I found my faith.  Though it is odd... it is my personal one.  I am a strong believer in the existence of God.. but not a Christian nor do I believe in the Bible as anything more than parable on how you should live your life..  put forth by those whose only concern.. was something more worldly and crass than your or my salvation (enough said on that).  But you don't shoot the corrupt messenger for the message. Honestly Jeff.. it is why I have come across as so condescending at times to some of our more strident.. and opinionated younger posters on the other forum and why I finally stayed away from those discussions.  Live a little bit.. then lecture those that have lived a life... about life. 

As I said earlier Jeff and I really mean it.. and believe it..  as you grow older.. you will experience things that will shape your faith... either to find God ..as I did.. or not.  Unlike Santa..  there is no answer to be found in this lifetime..  it is all based upon faith.  I too am a history buff and know as you do the destructive impact of religion on world history..  between religion and nationalism (or both wearing the same dress) they have probably far more harm to the world than good.

 However...  ask yourself Jeff.. do you blame God.. or question God for the ineptness.. the corruption of those who claim to follow or speak for God.  That is an answer one can only answer for himself..

I voted yes.

micky wrote: J-Man wrote: I guess I'm an atheist...  I "was" a Christian, but I have a really tough time believing any of it nowadays... everyone in my family is a Christian though, so I kinda have to go with the flow... yeah you sort of have to roll with the flow don't you... best to ride the church pew than fight with the parental/family units.  as far as faith... it is simply something you'll find.. or not find.  Life does have funny way of enhancing your faith.. or completely destroying it

One of the things that contributed to my lack of religious beliefs (more than you might think, actually) is the entire "Santa Claus" thing. I remember when I was about 10 years old and one of my friends told me that Santa Claus wasn't real. I searched my entire house in search of presents wrapped in decorative paper, and when I found those presents I was a little devastated. I had believed in something that is so ridiculous and absurd wholeheartedly, only to find out that it's a lie.

It seems silly to think that anyone would believe in such a thing, but if no one had ever told me that Santa doesn't exist, I (or anyone else) would still believe in Santa Claus to this day. Isn't religion the same way?